Sonny Liston or Wladimir Klitschko who rates higher as a all time heavyweight?

Bethea's manager's claim below.

Bethea's Manager Protests Decision
CHICAGO (UPI)
Aug. 7, 1958

Tony Vone, co-manager of conquered heavyweight Wayne Bethea, charged today his fighter’s defeat by Sonny Liston Wednesday night was “bagged.”

"The referee never should have stopped the fight,” Vone said. "Sure, he was bleeding, but it was from the gums and not from cuts, and he wasn’t hurt.”

Vone charged after referee Bernie Weissman In the ring after he halted the bout at 1:09 of the first round yelling it was “in the bag. I can see it in your face. I can see it in your eyes.”

Bethea, knocked down for the first time in his 28 pro fights, said he never was groggy or hurt, and “he never should have stopped the fight.”

Frank Gilmer, chairman of the Illinois Athletic Commission and a former referee, said “If I’d been the referee, I’d have done exactly the same thing.”

“When a boxer is hit and turns completely around and makes no effort to face his opponent and staggers off to the side still with his back to his opponent and gives every appearance or not having his faculties, the only thing a referee can do is protect the fighter from possible serious injury,” he said.

Gilmer said that if Vones does not bring his charges before the commission, he would be requested to appear for a hearing to show proof of his charges or his license would be revoked.

Truman Gibson, president of the International Boxing Club, offered champion Floyd Patterson $250,000 to defend his title against Liston because “he’s not one of those slappy guys, but a real puncher and the kind of fighter who can breathe life into the division.”

Bethea's manager complained, and he was threatened with having his license revoked. After being threatened of having his license revoked, his story changed.

Here's video of the fight. Where are the missing teeth? Where are the commentators talking about the horrible injury?

The Athletic Commission official doesn't even mention missing teeth until later. He just talked about stopping it because Bethea turned his back, not because his face was so horribly injured or his teeth were knocked out.

The proof is in the video. If you choose the myth, that's on you. I'm tired of arguing about it.

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And this is you ... and Bernard Fernandez, and everyone still insisting Liston knocked out an ever-growing number of Bethea's teeth, even though the video shows nothing of the sort.

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Well I use the site imgur to upload photos (make sure the photo is public)

Then you get the URL of the photo.

Paste in between the brackets

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Ah, okay, so we're cherry picking which statements of Bethea's manager we'll accept.

I will now accept Ali's claim that he literally murdered a rock and will not accept any other statements of Ali's.

 

While I agree with this, my take is Wlad's resume is better overall.

And as for h2h, Wladmir is the greater threat to most other heavies (with Stewart), but would lose an actual fight to Liston unless he's allowed to get away with excessive clinching.

 

That's BS. He only injured a stone...

 

If you’re judging on longevity Wlad. If you’re judging on who was better at their peak Liston. Problem with boxing is many guys win the title and just don’t train like they used too. Larry Holmes said it best.

 

1. I've never stated my position on the matter even once in this thread. Not sure why you say I've "chosen the myth." This is now the second time this thread you've attributed things to me that I've never said.

"Here's video of the fight. Where are the missing teeth?" I've watched footage of the fight and it's very grainy. There's no clear view into Bethea's mouth. The best view we had (which still wasn't a good shot) was when Bethea had his mouthpiece in.

"Bethea's manager complained, and he was threatened with having his license revoked. After being threatened of having his license revoked, his story changed." His story changed 60+ years later? Because according to you, that's when this story was made up.

You were then corrected

And didn't even have the balls and decency to admit you were wrong (something you should be used to by this point considering your laughable prophecies on Wilder), instead opting to manufacture strawmen.

"Repeating a lie over and over doesn't make it true." That's rich. In all my time on not only this forum, but across the internet, you're among the biggest liars and most dishonest individuals, I've ever come across.

This is, at the very least (giving you every benefit of the doubt which you certainly don't deserve) extremely disingenuous. Cooper at the time wasn't even close to being the best British heavyweight in the world. He was green, unranked, in the middle of a 4 fight losing streak, and coming off back to back KO losses.

I asked you FOUR times to show me any documentation of a second Charles Liston among Sonny's parents and you've provided nothing. Almost like you made the whole thing up.
You have also significantly downplayed the severity of Cleveland Williams shooting injuries'

While acknowledging how bad it was in the past.

"I'm tired of arguing about it."
For someone who's "tired of arguing about it." you've sure gone out of your way to quote me and attempt to engage me on the subject multiple times after not receiving any response. You are quite literally the sole reason, this thread is still going because you won't stfu about the whole thing so forgive me if I'm a tad skeptical of your claim to be tired of the debate.

 

Get over it. You've posted in this thread as many times as I have.

The film proves me right. Watch the fight.

 

But he did make medicine sick, didn't he?

 

I spoke to his medicine later that night, they didn't mention it.

 

Yes, but did the whale, the alligator the thunder or the lightning confirm or deny the many and varied allegations about their treatment at the hands of this madman....or did they simply use the age old legal defence of blaming it on the boogey....?

 

His medicine confirmed in an interview 60-years (or was it a few days?) later that Ali, did indeed make it sick.

 

Be it a few days or 60 years; it's less time than it'll take for this thread to die out.

 

Because the guy who’s supposedly so sick of arguing about the Liston-Bethea situation is the only one who won’t stfu about it.