Sonny Liston or Wladimir Klitschko who rates higher as a all time heavyweight?

I think he just loves sanctioning bodies (especially WBC) and views them as the only authority in boxing. It's ok to have that opinion, even tho I don't agree with it. But saying stuff like Wlad didn't dominate and ducked contenders is another story, pure BS.

 

I think I've demonstrated why such an approach leads to faulty conclusions in the end of the day its just a belt what's important is who you beat and how you beat them everything else is just window-dressing.

 

I'm not arguing about hypocrisy, simply pointing out. This isn't an argument. If Liston is a bully for using his size to his advantage, so is Wlad. It's literally that simple. To claim otherwise is hypocrisy.

Here's the thing about intimidation, which you just seem to not be getting. Wlad is not Muhammad Ali. He'd be scared, and expose his poor chin, and he'd lose because of it. The more he tries to jab and grab, the easier it'd be for Liston.

"ThE BrEwSteR aNd pEter FiGhTs aRe OvErbLoWn" lmao you sound ridiculous. Wlad got absolutely ****ing destroyed by Brewster and almost lost to one and only Sam Peter. He redefined his style coz he got his ass beat so bad. Really sounds like those fights were overblown...

 

The difference is Liston built his reputation beating up light heavyweights and small cruiserweights, guys who were barely cracking 200 pounds, if that. Meanwhile, Wlad spent his career dominating actual modern super heavyweights—big, strong, athletic men who were his size or bigger. The idea that Wlad is comparable to Liston in terms of ‘bullying smaller guys’ is absurd when their competition wasn’t even remotely the same.

And this whole ‘Wlad would be intimidated’ nonsense is pure vibes-based storytelling with zero connection to in-ring reality. Wlad wasn’t intimidated by actual super heavyweights like Sam Peter (who was stronger and more explosive than Liston), by 6’5 Tony Thompson, by 6’8 Mariusz Wach, or by 6’6 Joshua in his 40s. He walked through huge, dangerous punchers and controlled them. But somehow, you expect me to believe he’d mentally fold against a 6’1, 215-pound guy because he made faces at opponents in the 60s? Come on.

And yes, the Brewster and Peter fights are overblown because they don’t define his peak. Brewster win was a freak occurrence where Wlad was dominating before gassing out under bizarre circumstances (which even Brewster’s team acknowledged), and he beat Peter in their first fight winning and dominated him in their rematch without trouble. If you’re gonna use early losses to dismiss a fighter’s peak form, then Liston getting dropped by Marty Marshall—an actual light heavyweight—should disqualify him from this conversation entirely.

This is the problem with your argument—it has nothing to do with actual fight footage, results, or logic. It’s just ‘Liston was scary, Wlad was weak, therefore Liston wins.’ That’s not analysis, that’s wishful thinking dressed up as insight. If intimidation alone won fights, Liston wouldn’t have been dropped by Marty Marshall, quit against Ali, or had his aura shattered the moment someone didn’t buy into his act.

 

Some one else said Wlad had 15 ranked wins.

 

It's 22 including Mormeck.

Byrd x2, Peter x2, Haye, Povetkin, Mormeck, Sanders, Chagaev, Thompson, Jennings, Johnson, Bostice, Barrett, Rahman, Mercer, McCline, Brock, Brewster, Jefferson, Ibragimov and Chambers. Though it should be noted that this is the total of Boxers who were ranked at some point in their careers. It could be the case that only 15 of them were ranked during the time Wlad fought them.

 

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I would imagine the 15 was at the time of the of the fight. Thanks.

Pulev instead of Sanders who beat Wlad.

 

Just juxtaposition. You can't really tell how strong an untested belief is until you test it.

At what point in a fighter's career are they up for a Ring or TBR rating? Is there a specific goal to achieve to get these ratings that every boxer knows about and has known about since they began their career?

Rhetorical of course, the promo ratings have no set means of achievement where as the sanctioning bodies and their regional authorities do.

To be like super direct and give an exact example; BBBoC champions must be rated by the EBU, EBU champion must be rated by the WBC. Regardless of if the WBC likes them or writes articles glowing about their skills or not. However, to be rated by ring does a BBBoC title guarantee you a rating? No. How about the EBU title? No. Okay but sure Ring is forced to rate all major champions? No. There is NOTHING that forces Ring OR TBRB to rate anyone. Their mechanism is "consensus". Popularity contest that afford no room for the idea they might all be wrong and gives no mechanism to an athlete who lacks charisma and sales acumen to achieve within their system.

 

Wlad was never recognized an Undisputed Champion during his career. . Not once . Ever. Point blank period.
Lineal Yes. Undisputed no. You won't find a single shred of evidence that claimed Wlad was undisputed champ.

 

Check out his introductions before the Leapai and Pulev fights. Is that a shred of evidence you need, or you will say it's coincidental just to dig yourself deeper in a hole?

 

Never happened.

Why don't we just ask the man himself. You need the WBC strap to be Undisputed. Imagine being a boxing fan and not knowing this

Thursday 19 December 2013
Boxing: Wladimir Klitschko sets his sights on becoming undisputed world heavyweight champion after brother Vitali relinquishes WBC title

 

How about this

Usyk beats Fury to become first undisputed heavyweight boxing champion in 24 years

Hows that hole. Can you hear me??? LOL

 

How is Bermane was able to get to Vitali's vacant belt before Wlad?

I don't really see these as heavy hitting questions and I'm pretty sure youse lot can already guess my responses. Or to say that differently, flaws in these arguments are too obvious for me to believe you did not consider them which has me question why even ask.

 

Repeating falsities will not help you. It is untrue. Not ranking champions does not prevent champions from earning belts. Yes, I did prove this. I gave you links from the bodies. You are giving me words from yourself. One of these things has value.

 

You're just laughable at this point. Living in the alternate reality.

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