Sonny Liston v Lennox Lewis in a street fight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Scott Cork, Apr 26, 2022.

  1. Pugguy

    Pugguy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    In my younger days going out - one thing I noticed was that if you were perceived to be on your own, it wouldn’t be lost on those with malicious intent, and they might’ve spied you for some time without you realising it. It’s not uncommon.

    I’d lost my 10 x more inebriated mate, so I grabbed the last available dime table in a cocktail lounge of a club. On the prowl, ha! As the place swelled, a random dude asked if I minded him sitting in one of the other vacant seats.

    Sure I said, and he seemed normal enough and we just had the normal chit chat. Then he had a mate arrive shortly thereafter who he asked if it was okay to sit with us also. I said sure, again.

    All still normal but THEN, after about 1/2 hour, they tell me aggressively to leave “their” table. WTF? I put them straight and they began to escalate, trying to talk tough.

    I began to rise out of my chair to ready myself but one of them pushed me hard as I was half way up, off balance and I went backward in my seat to the ground. Unhurt except for pride.

    I got up to start swinging but then felt the impact of hard punch to my right temple - his mate had blindsided me - I went to throw at said mate but got held back by intervening patrons.

    Others testified to security as to who started it - the other two bozos were kicked out and I got to stay……but another feature to such things is keeping your eye out when you leave the club - there are psychopaths who will lay in wait outside to try and exact their revenge. On this occasion, no one to be seen.

    It’s funny when you’ve had a few “ales” - you know you’ve been hit and you know it was hard - but there is little or no pain….until the next day of course. LOL.

    So, in some cases, alcohol might give you the chin of Tex Cobb but unfortunately it will also reduce you to the same skill set.

    I’ve spoken to a few street wise scrappers. One told me how they would quickly assess their environment - and it’s ever changing in the “street” with different perils and advantages from one scene location to another. Punch ups in rest rooms can be particularly nasty for obvious reasons.

    One of the more brutal “tricks” I was told of - encasing your car keys inside a clenched fist with a single key end protruding between the folded fingers - good lord, imagine copping that?

    Funny to reflect on our “bullet proof” youths and then think, gee, I’m lucky to still be here - no wonder Mum and Dad were having kittens! You have your own kids later and the karmic wheels then turn……..that’s the most real fear, concern for the well being of your own children….who “strangely” take after your own good, former self. :)
     
  2. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just to add to a fine post, per the highlighted. The rare times Liston did have to stop advancing, i.e. against Cleveland Williams, he had the versatility to size things up, change tact, and still destroy you quickly via less straightforward, but more skillful, means. This for me really accentuates what a great heavyweight he was.
     
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  3. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I know he said something to that effect.
    But that is not what I was saying.
    Which is that he hurt his right hand.
    And that contributes to my doubt that Lewis was fearful.
    I asked for an indication of this motivation you ascribed to him, again numerous boxers like Ali choose not to try & finish a man-sometimes for a whole fight-for many reasons besides being afraid.
     
  4. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fine points. I much preferred to spectate in my younger day unless i just couldn't get out of it. I wasn't in much trouble but did see a lot it. I was also pretty perceptive as to what was going on around me, if trouble was brewing etc. Perhaps a sticky beak :lol:
     
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  5. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Fair points. Ken's still unhappy to this day i think.
     
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  6. Pugguy

    Pugguy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Great story and I did read it when you posted it previously. I enjoyed it just as much second time around. I believe it 100%. Not that it was necessary to believe it, but I’ve seen some similar stuff myself. Literal, one man wrecking machines.
     
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  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Oh ok, cool. Some people just aren't normal. Of course it can be detrimental too, in and out of jail and often having to fight. I know he run his area's in jail too as I've met 4 or 5 screws and they all sang from the same songbook. Not much of a life tho, especially as you age.
     
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  8. Pugguy

    Pugguy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Hell yeah, I don’t want to falsely advertise, sh*t just happened sometimes. As a fan and keen observer of boxing I’d practice and knew the basics, jabs, combo punching etc., of course I was a real goodun’…..when shadowing boxing, hitting the bag etc.

    Actual fights, live antagonists? Too angry, lose my head - keeping cool is sooo important and puts you well ahead of the pack if you can manage it, but it’s much easier said than done.

    I once had to get in and stand.between two women arguing and getting physical on a Xmas shopping queue. Imagine how ugly that looked. Anyway, I copped a misguided punch on the jaw for my troubles. Big Pacific Islander “Lady”. Had some grunt, nice form and leverage. Maybe related to David Tua in some way, shape up form…thank god it wasn’t David himself. She didn’t even say sorry……”now she must fall!”, LOL.
     
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  9. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :lol:

    The adrenaline makes it so hard to maintain form, and booze doesn't help either :lol:
     
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  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Oh and don't mess with pacific islander gals!!!! Or guys for that matter lol
     
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  11. Pugguy

    Pugguy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Excellent points, totally agree. The Liston-Williams fights are among my most favourite and convenient “go to” fights, particularly the first which I had not actually seen for many years until the advent of You Tube. Sonny’s weathering the storm and cooly/intelligently boxing and punching his way back in as he did is truly something to behold, again and again.
     
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  12. Pugguy

    Pugguy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Wise advice. If she was built like Moana that’d be one thing, but we’re talking more in the size realm of Maui. Big hands too - like Liston. Hehe.
     
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  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I've watched them multiple times myself. I am saddened when i read, from quite a few, that Liston wasn't skilled much at all. Technically he's actually one of the better champs in history and is actually multi dimensional and able to fight in various ways, and to add to that he can fight at various distances. I'm not knocking a guy like Tyson, but he is far less adaptable and faceted than a guy like Liston. Tyson's great, and overwhelming but if you are great enough to get past his A game that's it. Obviously it's entirely debatable who gets past his A game but Liston really impresses me on this front. His defense is also multi faceted. He slips, blocks, parries, he does it all really. He's no Willie Pep but he's damn good for a heavyweight.
     
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  14. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Some of my favorite fights to watch to minus the endings for obvious reasons. :lol:

    I think it was George who said both Liston and Williams had an underrated defense in this fight, and Philly once made an excellent analysis regarding the bout.

     
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  15. Pugguy

    Pugguy Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah, makes no sense to say Liston wasn’t so technically skilled when he was.

    Now I might’ve made that same incorrect call when only availed of snippets from the Williams 2, Patterson and Ali fights.

    But I’ve seen so much more over the years - even the Besmanoff fight, in which I think Liston puts an absolute clinic. And Bethea, destruction personified but tightly harnessed in boxing skills and delivered via educated executions. The actual FULL 12 rounds vs Machen - a far better triumph than is often described in print. There’s the post title fights too, where an older Liston’s skills are peeled back to perhaps even better advantage - still powerful but the defining edge to his punch somewhat reduced - so the skills coming more to the fore or, at least more noticeable.

    In glorious colour, LOL, and with good audio, Liston’s dismantling of a young and very good sized, durable HW in Henry Clark informs greatly on Sonny’s skills and still formidable power as well. Barring of course the final rounds and KO, there is much it be learned (positive) about Liston in the Martin fight also.

    What appears to be “home movie” footage of the Liston- Wepner fight is woeful but not woeful enough to prevent appreciation of Liston’s utter domination via skill and power. Crazy, but the Louis vs Canera filmed some 30 + years prior is actually clearer and that film in itself isn’t that great.
     
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