Sonny Liston vs. Billy Joiner

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Dec 18, 2010.


  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    I have the Liston-McMurray fight somewhere. McMurray turns "runner" too, Liston catches up with him eventually and beats him around.
    I haven't seen either of the Liston-Joiner fights.

    Liston was finished after he lost to Clay in 1964.
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    cool.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Yep. Getting fights in the States became murder and every major promoter seemed to have somewhere else to look all of a sudden. As Tosches observes, he became the first fighter to be banned for losing (in the sense that nothing was proven).

    In a sense though, boxing needed to protect itself. Ring absolutely hammered Liston.
     
  4. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    how highly do you rate liston ??
     
  5. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    On the Liston-Joiner fight,
    Sonny is wearing Ali type boxing trunks,
    White w/black stripe.
    Mel Greb, boxing promoter and friend, told him, it made him look more likeable than the black trunks.
    He wouldn't wear the white boxing shoes, because he felt he would look *****.

    Billy Joiner got to wear the black boxing trunks w/white stripe.

    In Rounds;
    Round 1; Even or slight edge for Joiner
    Round 2; Even
    Round 3; Even up to the point that Sonny finally catches Joiner, and floors him
    Round 4; Slight edge Liston, as they go toe-to-toe
    Round 5; Liston, as they go toe-to-toe
    Round 6; Sonny's best round so far, lands heavy left jabs on a fleeing Joiner
    Round 7; A tired Liston tries to club a tired Joiner

    Referee, John Thomas goes to Joiners corner, and askes for a stoppage.
     
  6. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    On Sonny Liston,

    In late-1967, he applied for and finally got a license to fight in;
    Massachusetts
    Nevada
    California (Granted him a license in the winter of 1967)

    The WBA had removed any suspension, and would give him approval also.
    But would not allow him to participate in any tournament box-off.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Very. I think he is one of the very, very best heavyweights.
     
  8. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No doubt, between 1958 and 1963, the best, when looking at his ledger.

    Never recovered mentally from the 1964 fiasco.
    Way too much behind the scene stuff going on.
    Alot more money issues and contract dealings than anyone could imagine.

    Outside of the boxing genre', Sonny was unmarketable, where some of the big money could be generated.
     
  9. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    i rate him highly too.as high as 6 or so in my case
     
  10. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    M-g-M,

    In 1968, his first fight was in Reno, Nevada.
    $15.00 for ringside tickets,,,,,,,OUCH!

    vs. Bill 'Fred' McMurray

    After the Billy Joiner fight, Sonny trained at the Silver Slipper Casino.
    They charged a $1.00 to enter the training area, to watch Liston work-out.
    Maybe 60 to 70 people a day, tops.
    The money went to the sparring partners.
     
  11. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    he must have been over 40 years of age then
     
  12. fatcity

    fatcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Liston is an interesting study of the shadows in boxing.
     
  13. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Also, on the fight-card at The Olympic in Los Angeles, 5/23/68.

    Joey Orbillo, the hot California Heavyweight was on the undercard.
    Most people were there to see him.
    Joey and his group wanted a fight with Sonny Liston in the fall.
    He was only 21, and 6' 0" 193 lbs.

    He was 11-2-1 (7 KO's) and fought and beat Cookie Wallace on the undercard.
    Trying to come back after decision losses to Eddie Machen and Jerry Quarry.

    Another young heavyweight, who got thrown in too soon.
     
  14. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Beep,

    Sonny Liston sparred with jerry Quarry in Los Angeles, about a week or so
    before this fight.

    Sonny Liston did say he discussed having a fight with Quarry while in Los Angeles.
    Jerry Quarry had lost to Jimmy Ellis in April, and wanted one-comeback fight
    before taking on Sonny Liston.

    But Quarry got injured in a water skiing accident in June 1968.
    Liston fought Henry Clark in July, and was hoping for a Quarry fight in September.
    Everything got re-shuffled.
     
  15. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The thing with Liston is that he accomplished so much without the benefit of a top caliber trainer. What other top notch heavy did not have a top corner behind him? Many times, the best available in the sport. Not Sonny Liston.

    Imagine Sonny w/ Freddie Brown. Or Goldman taking him on. Angie Dundee. Or an Arcel coming out of retirement.

    And the reverse is true. Where is Marciano w/o Goldman. Louis w/o Blackburn. Clay w/o Dundee. Frazier w/o Durham and so on.

    Sonny got the most out of the least. But I sure would've liked to have seen him hooked up with the best in the business like the other heavyweight champs always had for that final polishing.