Sonny Liston vs. Billy Joiner

True - he was a heavy drinker. He could´ve had a better career here in Scandinavia - Copenhagen in the 60és was a mecca of Jazz-music, with a lot of american musicans living here - but his Danish manager Mogens Palle could´nt get Liston out of the nightclubs and back to the gym - so Palle gave up on him and Liston left Copenhagen with no money.

 

he wasn't averse to vodka, either:hey

 

Sonny had guys to hold the spitbucket.........I think he improves 20% with a top corner......the version we had was formidable.Think of adding 20%.

And subtract those great corners from some of the other guys and insert the guys Sonny had.

 

That's just it. No polishing whatsoever.And was still heavyweight champ and came out of prison to do it.

I just don't think enough people comprehend what a hard and long journey that was. Not that the other champions had it easy, but Sonny had to evolve as much as they, just to get ranked.

As a camparison,I think Don Manuel did a better job developing Weaver and just when was the last time you heard that guy's name pop up when talking trainers?

I've always thought a top guy does not even take the Clay fight. Avoid him. He didn't have to fight him and could've fought the path of least resistance for a few more years. A sharp trainer would have seen potential danger with the reflexes of a 22 year old Clay.

 

Sonny could have fought Chuvalo, he'll sign a contract anywhere and anytime. And others on the bottom of the top 10. Milked that title for 2 or 3years before he had to fight Clay. Cassius was the guy that really needed that fight.

He just had different options available and the path taken was the worst possible. It's the hardest of sports & here's a guy always going into the lions den to take the food away from the lion.

 

Well his management team certainly knew what money was and it was by far the driving choice in any and all decisions.

But it still goes back to a different team and doing a top notch job in 1960. 61. and so on. When it gets to 64 or 65, the options are different because of the superb management of previous years.

Sonny never had that. You could teach a boxing 101 class on how things should be done & look at Marciano, which was not that long before Liston. Or even Patterson and D'Amato. The polar opposite would be the Liston braintrust--one side of the spectrum compared to the other.