Sonny Liston vs Eddie Machen

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Il Duce, Dec 16, 2010.


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  1. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Great SI article by Emmett Watson in the fight review.
    Watson labeled Sonny as a 'slow-thinking' fighter.
    Even at 211 lbs., Liston could not catch the 'slick Eddie.

    Fought in Seattle, Washington on 9/17/60, none of the fans were impressed with either.
    Even booing the #2 Ranked Eddie Machen, for his non-performance in
    his base area in the northwest.
    Machen did call Liston names throughout, and the 196 lb. Machen was not the least bit fazed by any of Sonny's punches, or his #1 ranking by that matter.
    Eddie Machen had a torn a ligament in his right arm in training for this fight, 6-days earlier, and was limited in his use of counter-rights.
    Machen even went after Liston in several rounds when the bell ended,
    baffling Liston.

    The boxing press were not impressed.
    Scoring by rounds;
    Liston; 8-2-4
    Liston; 4-2-6
    Liston; 8-1-3

    The 28-year old Eddie Machen did not look like the same 'agressive' fighter who demolished a very good and
    highly ranked Pat McMurty up here in the Northwest earlier.
    Maybe the head injury that McMurty sustained in that fight with Eddie, has affected Machen.
    The 6-year veteran Machen, though 'slick', may have slipped on a rock called 'Sonny' on his quest to scale Mt. Everest.
    Now at 34-3-1, Machen might be placed in the inevitable position as a stepping-stone for the up and coming
    crop of heavyweigts, or will be forced to take on the 'top' heavyweights in their own backyard.
     
    Il Duce, Dec 16, 2010
    Il Duce, Dec 16, 2010
    #1
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's all on YouTube. So people can see the excellent boxing performance by Machen, Machen being bothered by Liston's punches, and some outstanding tactical manuevering by Sonny.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqWl75lOUi8[/ame]

    I scored Machen two rounds, the first two.
     
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2010
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2010
    #2
  3. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Nice follow-up McGrain,,,,,,,,,,,

    Sonny Liston at 211 lbs. 'A little quicker than the 1964 version'
    Sonny is supposed to be age 28 at this time.
    Does he look older??

    This fight drew 7682 fans in Seattle.
    More fans the Liston-Clay 'title' fight in Miami.
     
    Il Duce, Dec 16, 2010
    Il Duce, Dec 16, 2010
    #3
  4. Woller

    Woller Active Member Full Member

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    I still want to know how the scores can be so foolish?!?!?
    If Sonny were deducted 3 points for low blows, haw can the scores be:
    119-112, 118-114 and
     
    Woller, Dec 16, 2010
    Woller, Dec 16, 2010
    #4
    William Walker likes this.
  5. Woller

    Woller Active Member Full Member

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    118-116???
    Somthing is very wrong here.

    Sorry, pushed enter too soon by mistake.

    Woller
     
    Woller, Dec 16, 2010
    Woller, Dec 16, 2010
    #5
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There are three theories.

    1) The judges excersised discretion and didn't deduct the points as the judge indicated.

    2) The referee wasn't directing the judges to deduct the points as the TV commentator seemed to think.

    3) The points were tacked on to Machen's score rather than removed from Liston's.

    and, most likely, a fourth

    4) a mistake.

    Fortunately, you can deduct the points from the scores as given and Liston still wins.
     
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2010
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2010
    #6
  7. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I believe in scoring the fight in the State of Washington.
    It was a 10-point must system.
    The point deduction was not used per round, but accumulated and
    deducted at the end of the fight, if need to be break a draw.
     
    Il Duce, Dec 16, 2010
    Il Duce, Dec 16, 2010
    #7
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Oh, that's lovely. That would clear things right up if that was true. Never heard of it before, but it'll bare some examination I bet.
     
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2010
    McGrain, Dec 16, 2010
    #8
  9. Il Duce

    Il Duce Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well,
    If Sonny was deducted 3-points, he should have had no more than 117, with a
    perfect 10 in each round.
    Don't think a point was added to Eddie's score, during the round, as that doesn't
    make sense.

    If 3-points were added to Eddie' score then the scoring in rounds were;
    Liston; 11-1-0
    Liston; 9-2-1
    Liston; 7-2-3
     
    Il Duce, Dec 16, 2010
    Il Duce, Dec 16, 2010
    #9
  10. jaffay

    jaffay New Orleans Hornets Full Member

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    I saw ony 9 minute highlight of this fight and it looked very competitive. I wonder how the whole fight looked like. Machen didn't run like I read in reports...but it's still only 9 min of video. Liston said something like "It takes to to dance and Machen wasn't in the mood". Scorecard is bizarre.
     
    jaffay, Dec 17, 2010
    jaffay, Dec 17, 2010
    #10
  11. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    sonny looked a lot more mobile than he did in his later fights:goodcheers
     
    turpinr, Dec 17, 2010
    turpinr, Dec 17, 2010
    #11
  12. jaffay

    jaffay New Orleans Hornets Full Member

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    Thanks to McGrain I've watched this fight finally:

    Sonny Liston - Eddie Machen

    1. 9-10 nice short punches by Machen, good counters, Liston landed the biggest punch of the round
    2. 10-9 Liston hit harder, good body blows, Machen is game
    3. 9-10 very close, Machen lands clean early, Liston takes control later with big punches, Machen finishes good with counters
    4. 10-9 clear, Liston more aggressive and hitting harder, Machen counters well
    5. 10-9 Liston throw heavy, hard body blows, more aggressive, Machen spins him and sneaks lefts
    6. 9-9 Machen fast start, Liston jabbing and taking control later on, low blows (?) - commentator says that Liston got 1 point deduction
    7. 10-9 close, Machen counters, Liston uses his left hook but misses a lot, aggression is desicive.
    8. 10-9 Liston is the aggressor and throws big punches, Machen counters goo with 30 s left.
    9. 10-9 Liston keepieng pressure, throwing more, Machen inactive
    10. 10-9 Liston keepinh the pressue, throws hard shots, Machen counters great two times but not enough to win this round
    11. 7-10 Machen starts fast, a lot of holding by him, Liston swings wild, low blow and 2 point deduction, Machen continues the battle
    12. 9-10 close, Liston starts strong but Machen connects with wonderful counters, Liston nice finish but not enough

    113-112 Liston
     
    jaffay, Dec 17, 2010
    jaffay, Dec 17, 2010
    #12
  13. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    Overall, I'm still very impressed by Machen...it was a moral victory of sorts for him.
     
    red cobra, Dec 17, 2010
    red cobra, Dec 17, 2010
    #13
    William Walker likes this.
  14. red cobra

    red cobra Loyal Member Full Member

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    It looks even better for Machen from the perspective of time...after all this was 1960 Liston...the version of the Bear that many hearken back to in defense of Liston....when he was such a badass.
     
    red cobra, Dec 17, 2010
    red cobra, Dec 17, 2010
    #14
    William Walker likes this.
  15. turpinr

    turpinr Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    good point.that was as good as i've seen of sonny as regards boxing.211lbs seemed to be about right for him too
     
    turpinr, Dec 17, 2010
    turpinr, Dec 17, 2010
    #15
    red cobra likes this.
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