Even on paper, Liston's assets are heightened and his deficiencies overlooked. Foreman is a great warrior that wins shootouts in comparison to Liston. The difference between the two is Foreman believed he was the baddest man on the planet until he was counted out. Liston realized he wasn't as soon as he started getting beat.
Lyle started very late and had a huge punch. His potential is uncharted and whilst I'm not a fan of giving a benefit of doubt I'm not one for writing a guy off. Foreman at a low ebb took a huge shot and came back to win by stoppage. His offensive gifts are there for all to see, a quick cross guard, an elite chin, a huge workd rate and massive clubbing power. If you didnt run from him you lost, even when he was in his 40's x
Liston is the better boxer. His long jab, short hooks. Both men had incredible timing. Still, there's a little devil in me that says it is just wrong to fight forward against George Foreman. The man is such a freak of nature.
But which shootouts did a prime Foreman have? He only had one and looked very vulnerable winning it. Liston had several and came out looking great. The shootout advantage easily goes to Liston.
We have different definitions of shootouts, slug-fests, and warrior. Liston quit against Ali before he actually stayed sitting on his stool. Foreman punched away until he was completely weary & exhausted. And honestly in Zaire there's a case of him actually beating the count. It was close. Liston fans love to bring up the broken jaw against Marshall, and the supposed broken nose against Williams. The first Marshall fight I believe isn't on film, but he lost. And the Williams fight was 2-3 rounds. After trashing Patterson, he quits twice against Ali. According to Pacheco he said Ali could punch like hell. Liston even said Williams was just as dangerous and good as himself, but the difference was he just couldn't take it. Well Foreman is every bit as dangerous and he can take it. Not just take it better, but dish it too.
The 1973 Joe Frazier of Kingston- who was fighting 10 lbs over his best weight, was unfocused and no longer at his peak from living the sweet life- would get destroyed by a prime Sonny Liston. I can absolutely guarantee it. I wouldn't even wager on that version of Frazier to beat a prime Oscar Bonavena. He looked awful before the first bell even rang.
Nor m I. I'm not writing Lyle off. All I'm saying is that we saw him go to war with Foreman (the ONLY war a prime GF engaged in) and almost stop him. We saw Liston get banged every bit as hard (harder, actually) and look much better taking it. True. But Liston took BIGGER shots. And looked a lot better taking it and coming back to win. And maybe GF was at a "low ebb" because he was in against a guy as relatively big and strong as he was and wouldn't be pushed around. In Liston he would be facing the same thing, but in a more formidable package. Anyone who thinks GF is going to just barrel ahead and throw bombs indiscriminately at Liston is sorely mistaken. GF does that and he gets his head torn off. Expect him to exercise the same caution with Liston. If he took Lyle's best without flinching, I would call his chin "elite". He was hurt, staggered and floored too many times for me to give his chin elite status.
I guess so. So I ask you again, which shootouts did a prime GF have? I assert that anyone who says that young GF proved himself in more shootouts/slugfests than a prime Liston, hasn't watched Foreman's or Liston's careers. He was in ONE. Period. Yes, they bring it up because those are the facts of his career. He fought his way through much more adversity early in his career than Foreman, who was roundly criticized in BOTH of his careers for feasting on soft opposition on his way up. The popular journalistic word for GF leading up to the Frazier fight was "untested". No such accusation was leveled against Liston. Perhaps if GF fought a bit more stiff opposition on his way up we might see a few more losses on his ledger, eh?. Yes and Sonny looked a lot more impressive burrowing through Williams' titanic shots and knocking him out in three than GF did getting continuously staggered and bounced off the canvas by Ron Lyle. During the biggest slugfests of their respective careers, who looked more vulnerable? I daresay Foreman. The Lyle fight tells me otherwise. GF can take it to a degree. Sonny proved that he can take more and look a lot more impressive doing it.
His body looked pretty soft in Manilla, too. Frazier never could seem to get back down to his 205 lb form post FOTC. For whatever reasons it was after that grueling fight; perhaps high blood pressure, or less intensity in his training. The fact remains that Frazier was 29 years old, undefeated, and just coming off winning the FOTC, and didn't look that depleted trouncing Terry Daniels and stopping Ron Stander. Past his peak? Sure, but not a ruined or damaged fighter in the ways many people wish to believe and describe. Frazier never had a great body, just ask Eddie Futch. By the mere looks of things he would've never appeared to be a HW champion. This is the type of hyperbole that tarnishes credibility. Kingston Frazier destroys Patterson inside 5 rounds, and beats every single opposition Liston beat. The Frazier victory is not just better than Liston's best victory against Patterson, but better against both victories against Patterson. And that hurts a little. This content is protected What a disgraceful obese, fatty.
This content is protected What you say about my body, Eddie? Yeah, Liston can now take it better, too. This content is protected