Sonny Liston vs George Foreman. Prime for Prime?

I happen to pick Liston over Foreman like you but Pete has already made his points regarding a Foreman win. Foreman was on his way up against Peralta and wasn't peak yet. You acquire a confidence when you win the world title. However I agree with you about Liston's qualities trumping Foreman's.

 

foreman admired liston. Liston would beat him.

 

Liston over rated that's sad to hear.

To beat Foreman you had to really hurt him or else he would just keep coming forward, Liston had the power alone in his jab to get Georges attention and as soon as he gets it going its over. Liston had the superior footwork,in fact I believe his footwork was the best for a big man the way he would spring at his opponents is so fun to watch.If George does really stand up to Liston well Sonny has the devastating jab to sit behind and he doesn't have anything like a young Ali's timing,reaction,speed etc.This fight turns into a test of the will,it becomes a brawl and I pick Sonny.

The quiter mentality is bull****,second fight was fixed according to the FBI and a quitter doesn't fight with a broken jaw.

Foreman sparred with a old Liston after the Olypmics up until he was 20 or 21? Which indicates Foreman wouldn't KO Liston,if we go on what George says and Liston sparring partners saying what they said about him in sparring, because certain fighters,the very special ones peak physically when they're very young.

 

1- That´s very debatable to say the least....Foreman´s offensive footwork was way better than Liston, I think you´re the first guy I hear saying that Liston had a good footwork.

2-Every fighter considered a quitter has similar stories to tell...."oh, but in a fight before he fought badly injuried and etc".
Liston quit, once, that was real....the second fight, was embarrasing, maybe he quit as well, but it was embarrassing for sure.

3-One thing is one thing, another thing is another thing, you know, sparring is just a sparring...totally different.
Old Liston wasn´t koed by Foreman in sparring but was in a fight against Martin who wasn´t better than any version of Foreman....
The fact though is that Foreman beat better fighters, the Frazier demolition is better than Patterson´s so he was the more proven guy...I think some of Liston´s opponents like Cleveland Williams are very overrated as well.
Why we should consider Williams a better fighter than Chuvalo ?

 

1- Foreman could move well but Sonnys feet were like springs. He could literally shoot himself at any angle where was Foreman had to standing upright, Foreman moved his upper body but so did Sonny who also bent at the knees and with the jab in front of him Foreman is going to have to eat it.
2- The FBI have said they have proof no2 was a fix. Sonny never had any excuses too humble.
3- Martin is a different fighter,Sonny was kicking his ass up until that point who by then was way past his use by date. Ali said the same thing about Cleveland.

 

There is nothing at all that supports the notion that GF had greater stamina than Sonny Liston. That's crazy and flies in the face of historical fact. A prime, trained Sonny Liston had excellent stamina (show me ANYTHING that indicates otherwise).

A prime, trained George Foreman had noted stamina problems.

Stamina advantage is clearly in Liston's corner.

 

I still don't know where people are getting Liston had bad stamina from??

 

Ali/Frazier nuthuggers active in this thread, gotta stomp them out.

 

This is the second time in the last few days someone has posted that the FBI said there is proof #2 was a fix.
I don't believe the FBI ever said that.

The Maine Attorney General asked the FBI to investigate the fight. It was believed to be a fix but Maine didn't have the resources for an investigation.

The FBI did a preliminary investigation with inconclusive results.

It declined to do a full field investigation. That's where the matter stands as far as the FBI is concerned.

I think it was a fix and I think Walcott was part of the fix. It hasn't been proven and I don't think it ever will be.

 

I pushed it a bit to make a point against Liston, perhaps, but it´s not absurd...I think (and maybe I´m wrong) that if we show the stats of punches per round, we would see that Foreman was the busier man on average. With that considered, it´s not fair to take a few fights of young and green Foreman to say he had bad stamina.
I mean, IMHO the Ali fight is very atypical, when you´re very anxious and tense you get tired earlier than normal (much earlier actually), not because stamina exatcly, but it´s all emotional, I think Liston in that situation would end up in the same way. It was more a case of inexperience to me. And in the Peralta fight, like Pete said, he went for the kill without any economy because he thought the fight was going to end.
Maybe I pushed it too much saying Foreman had better stamina, okay, but I still think that Foreman´s stamina is not exactly bad and Liston´s is not exatcly remarkable in this aspect, after all his fights didn´t have a high pace and he only fought 12 rounds once.

 

And George was a speedy puncher putting a high punch output for 15 rounds?...

 

That was me and you should have read my post.

35:53 in
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_7Ps7SgxqU

 

Prove what wrong? I'm just providing my arguments in the thread.

 

Liston coasted on auto-pilot. The guy fought mindful and never threw bombs after bombs like Foreman. Look at Foreman's punch work-rate in the Zaire heat when he quit on his roadwork. When did Liston ever show a high work-rate, let alone when did he ever fight in the scorching heat.

So an old 40's Foreman didn't display stamina problems. Does that mean he had better stamina than he his younger self? What indicates Liston had superior stamina exactly?