Sonny Liston vs George Foreman

Ali beat an old Liston twice. He wasn't lucky to beat a prime Foreman at all. I refuse to believe you actually believe these arguments. I think you are contrary for the sake of it. Nobody could come out with such bollocks and mean it!

 

Chuvalo made Foreman give all the concessions to movement until getting his bell rung. Foreman-Peralta I also sees Big George moving in, out, and laterally as Greg stands his ground. We only see Liston do this on film with his stoppage of Scrap Iron, but he is effective in doing so with long straight shots from a distance.

I definitely prefer Sonny here. Straight punching trumps looping shots, Liston had one of the most consistent jabs in the history of the division, he was far more proactive at defending himself, and he, not Foreman, would be the one standing his ground.

Versatility favors Liston. George always went into a match looking for a knockout, something Sonny didn't necessarily feel reliant upon. In this case, Foreman would need that knockout, and both would know it.

Foreman in his 20s never produced a knockdown beyond round five, and only went ten in the two Peralta bouts [the second one a spurious stoppage] and Levi Forte [who later tipped off Ali to George's weaknesses in Kinshasa, and nodded to Muhammad from ringside on when to lower the boom]. Liston was solid over longer distances, from Marty Marshall III in March 1956 to Wepner in June 1970. Late career, he shut Henry Clark out, and swept the first seven rounds against Leotis before gassing.

Take a look at Liston-Williams I & II again. If Foreman fails to blast him out quickly like Cleveland twice tried to do unsuccessfully, George will be in very serious trouble. If this becomes terse, affairs will be conducted at Sonny's preferred longer range, not Foreman's mid range comfort zone. George's physical strength would not be very useful here, and if matters did go inside, his body was there to be hit.

A case can be made that Foreman never really took a beating until Alex Stewart. Liston would give him one.

We might see a heavyweight version of Eddie Mustafa Muhammad versus Marvin Johnson, with Sonny taking Eddie's role by unloading debilitating body shots while enacting a mid ring rope a dope until George expended himself. Liston was strong enough, skilled enough, and with the smarts, patience and pacing stamina to make it work.

 

:happy Well done, sir!

 

Still waiting for your "Liston said Foreman hit harder" source

 

Tommo, me old mate! Ali openly admitted being scared of Liston. I think both Sonny and George were frightening. I favour Liston to win, but wouldn't argue with anyone who thinks differently, to be honest.

 

I recall a Ring article on this from the early seventies where the scribe (Nat Loubet?) wondered if Liston could beat a bigger and more mobile version of himself.