Sonny Liston vs. George Foreman

Excellent post.

 

Produce one contemporary news paper report that says Marshall dropped Liston.

 

Liston's weights for opponents*
Summerlin 206
Marshall [3] 203
Mederos 204
Bethea 204
Daniels 212
Whitehurst [2]212.5
Cab 211
DeJohn 209.5
Williams [1] 212.5
Valdes 211
King[1]212.25
Williams [2]212.25
Harris 212
Folley 212.25
Machen 211
King 219.5
Westphal 212.25
Patterson[1]213
Patterson[2]215.5
Ali[1]218
Ali[2] 215.25
Zech 221
Johnson 218.25
Bailey 221.5
McMurray 223
Clark 219
Lincoln215.75
Johnson217
Martin 219.5
Wepner 219

Lightest weight for Liston 203 for the 3rd Marshall fight
Under 210lbs 5 times
Over 215lbs 13 times
Over 220lbs 3 times


Foreman's weights for opponents

Wepner 213
Davila 214
Wiler 214
Peralta[1]213
Brassell 217
Eastling 212
Russell 212
Johnson 216
Chuvalo 218
Bailey 215
Kirkman 216
Peralta[2] 216
Scott 222
Gullick 221
Paez 217
Frazier[1]217.5
Roman 219.25
Norton 224.75
Ali 220
Lyle 226
Frazier[2]224
Ledoux229
Young 229
Under 210lbs 0 times
Over 215lbs 17 times
Over 220lbs 7 times



Liston's heaviest ,McMurray 223lbs, second heaviest Bailey 221.5lbs

Foreman's heaviest 229,Young & Ledoux 229lbs
*These are those I have been able to verify.

No 232lbs for Foreman that I can find.
NB Foreman scaled 219lbs for his pro debut not 220lbs.
1969-06-23 : George Foreman 219 lbs beat Don Waldhelm 187 lbs by TKO at 1:54 in round 3 of 6

• Location: Madison Square Garden, New York, New York, USA
• Referee: Zach Clayton

• Pro debut for Foreman

 

You don’t think it happened? Going by the report of the first fight it seems possible.

Detroit Free Press

September 8, 1954

Marty Marshall, the man who baffled Sonny Liston, did everthing that was unexecpted - and Liston,
a predictable fighter, found the unpredictable Marshall beyond his ken.

Marty Marshall, who fights from an extremely unorthodox style, which finds him as a
right-hander one-minute and a southpaw the next, confused Sonny Liston throughout the fight.

As the fight wore on, Liston became more and more frustrated by his inability to catch up
with the 'ever-moving' Marshall, and the Detroiter took the play away from him through
the final three rounds to clinch his triumph.

Marshall, 'The Michigan Bomber', a 30 year-old 6' 0' 180 lb. fighter, is the master of the '3-step bop',
kind of a dance - then the cork-screw right hand. It is a 'sucker-punch' that found its home on the
chin of the lumbering Sonny Liston many times Tuesday Night at the Motor City Arena.

To make matters worse, everytime that Marshall threw his cork-screw right hand, he let out a
a 'hoot sound', letting everyone in the Motor City Arena know that the right-hand was on its way.
Everyone heard the 'warning sound' - except the 'frozen stone' Sonny Liston, who caught the punch
on his face nearly evertime the 180 lb. Detroiter uncorked it.

 

10 Feb 1964 sports illustrated:

“Marty Marshall broke Liston's jaw and beat him. In a rematch Marshall knocked Liston down. In a third tight Marshall hurt Liston, by Sonny's own admission, and went 10 rounds before losing the decision.”

 

Liston vs Foreman primes? .. Objectively? It's one helluva a fight.. Both are landing and taking huge shots in this one

 

This again? I thought we'd put this to bed. An interview with Marshall from ten years later is not a contemporary report. This is:

http://i65.tinypic.com/ir3pmp.jpg

 

There it is! I couldn’t find it. And there is no mention of a knockdown.It seems there was no knockdowns scored by Marshall but in losing every round of a "dreary ten rounder" Marty still cut Sonnys lip and gave him a nose bleed in their last fight.

Just Wish there was film.

 

You don't need film of that. If you wanna see "a dreary 10 rounder". Check James Toney' s video library or Michael Moorer.

 

where's this mention of a nose bleed, sounds unlikely

 

That isnt a contemporary newspaper report.

FYI. Liston won 9 of the 10 rounds against Marshall in their 3rd fight and the remaining one was even.
Marshall ran like a thief ,which he freely admitted and still was floored multiple times which tells you how reliable SI's article is!lol

"Sonny Liston, 203, St. Louis, parlayed a harder punch, a devastating body attack and a 24-pound weight advantage into an easy decision over Marty Marshall, 179, Detroit, in the 10-round main event of a fight card at the Gardens tonight. Both judges and referee Buck McTiernan scored the bout the same—the first round even and the next nine for Liston. Marshall spent most of his time retreating." - Associated Press

 

You’re obsessed with Listons loss to Marshall which occurred in only his 7th pro fight. Marshall was a ranked top 10 contender at 175lb and Liston fought four rounds with a broken jaw which verifies how underrated his mental toughness and heart is.

Why should this loss count against Liston when other ATG fighters had similar defeats early in their careers?

Henry Armstrong in his 14th pro fight lost to a journeyman

Billy Conn in his 5th pro fight lost to a tomato can

Jack Dempsey in his 9th pro fight lost to a club fighter

Liston was very green in 1954 and most importantly he improved tremendously in the rematches once he matured.
In the rematches, Liston knocked down Marshall 4 times before knocking him out in the 6th round. In the third fight, Liston dominated Marshall winning a shutout decision on all 3 scorecards.

 

Marshall lost the third fight in dominating fashion. Shut out on all 3 cards except one round which was scored even. If you think this was a competitive fight, then you are not paying attention to the facts

Here is what Marshall said

"Liston beat me in the 2nd fight like no man should be beaten. When I fought him for the 3rd time, I knew there was no way I was going to let him do that to me again. I ran for survival. I was not going to let him hit me again". - Marty Marshall

 

Why ?

 

It's in Foreman's autobiography