Mc,also due respect to you. Let's face it. Our passions towards our favorites are real and authentic. Yours and mine. But my reference to an "open Mind",transcends our personal feelings,and WE MUST give great credence to people who saw Jack Dempsey at his best,and lauded him to the skies...I will not mention their names again, but an OPEN mind must say to oneself, EIGHTY years later, "hey they saw him at his best ,and their opinion MIGHT very well be right. After all, they were witnesses ".!!! That to me is an OPEN MIND... They were There....Cheers ...
Seriously McGrain I've not taken anything personally - just can't take people reeling off stuff that is out and out not true - you'd say the sky was was just like the sea just because it was blue and has some oxygen in it you have a genuine discussion on this and then say Patterson is a good comparison with Dempsey - sorry but that is ridiculous - and then saying well it is because Janitor says it is is even more comical - how can you not see that??
Dempsey and Patterson both: -Center their style around coming forward -Use a lot of head- and upper-body movement to zero in on the opponent -Have great left hooks -Can box decently, but aren't going to win by sticking to the jab and moving -Are both around 190lbs Sorry but that makes them awfully close, style-wise. Dempsey is probably more durable, although it should be noted that he was stopped in a single round by a 37 year old lightheavy not renowned for his hitting power. In addition to that, the guys who scored a clean KO only Patterson, Liston and Johansson, are better punchers than anyone Dempsey ever faced. If he fought them a combined 5 times, do you think his KO column would still say 0? Mind you, Patterson fought well in his late thirties against guys like Quarry, Chuvalo and Bonavena without getting stopped. Said fighters are at least as good punchers as Willard and Firpo are, especially when you take into account that they have less skill than the experienced amateurs from my local gym. This argument is just silly. What you're basically saying is we should shut down ESB classic as none of us are ATG boxers. Or are we only allowed to use exact citation from ATG boxers/trainers from now on? Would be one Hell of a quoting-battle, then. More experience, based on what? George Foreman alone has seen more fights and rounds than Dempsey. Let's also not forget that Liston and Foreman have had amateur careers, unlike Dempsey. Anyway, I'm still waiting for the magic 190lbs dominant heavyweight champion to return. For whatever reason, we haven't had one for more than a decade. And what, Dempsey is now a complete boxer? Did you see him completely switch styles like Lewis did vs Golota compared to vs Tua? No, Dempsey in fact made absolutely zero adjustment when Tunney thoroughly outboxed him. Style-wise, the rematch is a carbon copy of the first.
Dempsey would have a chance......He isn´t a pure swarmer like Frazier or Marciano...Dempsey was very mobile on his feet, and Liston had one of the worst footworks between the HW champions.....I don´t like Liston balance as well.....after the jab he is out of balance...Liston was more hittable than Dempsey.... I´m not saying Dempsey would beat Liston....but I can see a good chance.....
An open mind is someone who thinks for themselves. A person who constantly runs to other opinions to form his own is the complete opposite of an open mind.
I'm sorry, but this is looking to me an awful lot like somebody who doesn't know their boxing. Stylistically, they look almost identical in terms of their left hooks, dipping crouches on offence and footwork. Maybe you're not sure what stylistically means, I don't know. Anyway, i've started a thread on this, feel free to pop in and explain why i'm wrong. Or just post more emoticons.
This is one of most confusing posts that I've ever seen. Liston had good balance and was always in position. His fundamentals were exceptional. I agree that anything is possible, but I'll the house on Liston.
I don´t rate Liston´s skills so high as many here.....I´m not saying he isn´t a skilled fighter, of course he was..... But Sonny tends to fall in with his punches at times, especially with the jab (his best weapon) in my view....And his footwork is not good !! And Dempsey isn´t only a pure coming forward swarmer, he was a very smart fighter.........that´s it....why confusing ?
Yes, and a man who say's that the world is flat, thinks for himself also, but in reality is sadly misinformed. Cheers.
A great deal of the discussion on the Classic section of this forum relies on the opinions of others. Otherwise, how could there be any serious discussion on fights and fighters that were never captured on film. In such cases, the opinions of others is just about the ONLY source of material. While the opinions of others should not be the sole source for forming one's own opinion, in some cases, they're certainly a valid part of the equation. In Dempsey's case, I think it's agreed that a good portion of his standing results from the opinions of old-timers who were there. Some of these guys were still around for Baer, Braddock, Louis, Charles, Walcott, Marciano, Liston and Ali, and would therefore be well placed to make comparisons. On the other hand, nostalgia, rose-tinted glasses and sometimes senility might detract from their objectivity. Re the topic: Assuming Dempsey could be persuaded to fight a guy of Liston's complexion, I think it would be a fairly brief affair. Dempsey's come=forward style would play into Liston's strengths and I believe he would get himself KOd in the first few rounds.
