Sonny Liston vs Jack Dempsey

I knew you were going to say that...but contemporary reports generally say that while Clay's punch landed it didn't appear to have enough power to knock Liston out. There were cries of 'fix' immediately. This only occured years later in the Dempsey bout, chiefly when Jack was making his legend and Jim was a mere footnote. Also, the newspaper reports of the Flynn fight portray it as being a good, solid, thwack.


ps. I have to f-off for a bit now.

 

what so many deserving challengers apart from wills?

 

:good

 

Several contemporary obsevers did report that the punch that droped Liston landed with significant force and modern computer analysis of the footage supports this.

There is far more testimony based evidence to suport the Dempsey dive than the Liston dive. The Liston dive is based almost entirley on heresay after the event.

Do you not think you are aplying a double standard here especialy given that there is no film of the Dempsey Flyn fight to suport this monster punch?

 

every fighter has it's critics and none of the old time experts, regardless of whether they favour Dempsey or are against him, are not god's or 100 percent right

 

Liston is so ****ing overrated it´s not even funny anymore...

 

u can criticise Dempsey's legacy but u can't criticise his heart and guts. Regardless of how big a writer Daniel was, he is flat out wrong to call Dempsey a coward as is My Dinner With Conteh. Any fighter that is willing to step in the ring and risk his/her life has guts. Obiously some have more then others. But Dempsey had great heart and could come back to win even after taking very heavy shots. That shows heart

And MDWC, if u and ur beloved writer call Dempsey a coward , and if ur so brave, why don't u get into the ring and fight powerful men? Some of u r acting as if taking punches is an easy job and that u have been doing it all ur life

 

That's just childish.

 

i'd say calling him a "coward" is definately hating. Criticising him for fighting smaller men and then again criticising him for not fighting some other smaller men (as some here do, not you though) is certainly hating. I realise he had his flaws but don't u think the points i mentioned above are a tad too harsh on Dempsey?

 

ok. So why was Dempsey a coward? did he not show guts in the ring? Did he never get off the floor to win?

 

What i think is that you are waaaaay too emotional considering this is an online forum of all things.

 

ok, i'll calm down. But honestly John, u r a good poster and i have always liked u as a poster, don't u think that some of the points i mentioned (about blaming him for fighting and not fighting smaller men and the coward thing) are unfair?

 

I don't doubt Sugar Ray Leonard's heart for a second either, but that doesn't mean i'd pick him over Liston.

It is amazing that Dempsey still profites today of being the most popular sports hero in 20's, when boxing was even more popular than in the 40's. The myth has grown to unprecedented proportions. Movies, being white (unlike Johnson) made sure that happened. What did not make sure that happened was achievements in the ring. A quick win over the weakest champion in history is blown up to a huge achievement. A washed up lightheavy makes the first million dollar gate. Great historical achievement, lousy boxing achievement.

Can you imagine how much credit Lennox Lewis would get if he fought Saad Muhammed in 1992, got stunned in the third but won by KO in the 4th? And if he sat on the title for years and then went the full 15 round distance with a light heavyweight with a padded record?



I really feel sorry for the people in the 20's. Heavyweight boxing ****ing sucked back then. The best fighters (black usually) were rarely allowed to fight the best white fighters who held the titles and most respect. Or they were forced to throw fights like Godfrey, what could he have been in a decent era? And then you have a champion who sits on the title for a full THREE years after having a controversial win over Firpo, who looks like he's never boxed before. And today's heavyweights are supposed to be bad? At least they have technique and fight more than once every three years.

 

Calling Dempsey a coward is pretty much ******ed and anyone who would say that is just saying stupid **** because they irrationally hate Dempsey. Willard wasn't a very good fighter, but he had literally killed a man in the ring with his punch, and I can't imagine how imposing his size would have been, and Dempsey still went up against him and destroyed him. Dempsey literally fought to survive in his early days, under incredibly harsh conditions. Most people, if faced with some of the things Dempsey overcame in his life would probably **** themselves and cry.