Sonny Liston vs Jack Dempsey

Although this post comes accross as being a bit harsh, I have to agree with pretty much all of it. I have said to others for years that Dempsey was a good fighter, but his legacy had been blown up way out of proportion. Now some are finally starting to come around. He was neither the first nor the last champion to do anything, except generate a million dollar fight gate, but that had more to do with economic progression than anything else. It had "0" to do with boxing ability. Defending a crown only 6 times in 7 years, plus failing to give a title shot to a mandatory contender, due to his skin tone, automatically disqualifies a champion from being part of any top all time list in my opinion.

 

but Johnson was so old and hated anyway. No way wopuld anyone have allowed an old man to fight for the title. Come on mate, Miske, Brennan etc were all better then an old Johnson

 

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All good potential challengers but apart from Greb they did not really do enough to force the issue. Godfrey for example was as much a victim of bad managment as anything.

 

Liston gets hit by a ghost shot no other ****er sees and rolls around on the deck till its over,then gets up,like he was not hurt.

 

I can give you Greb. Greb could hold his own with heavyweights and a match between Greb and Dempsey would have been pretty intersting. Of course, if Dempsey catches Greb, he has still only beat a middleweight. And heaven forbid if Windmill should win around or two, then people would say "and Dempsey had trouble with a middleweight." and make "comparisons" that make no sense to Ketchel and Johnson or the fact that Lennox Lewis didn't fight middlewieghts or something silly.
Look at how much flack Tunney gets to this day for losing one fight against Greb! And that was without much of a weight difference. It was a no win situation.

Much is made of Demspey not fighting Sam Langford. It seems unlikely that John the Barber was even capable of delievering Langford. But that really doesn't matter, Dempsey was a novice 21 year old, roughly living homeless in NYC, deserted by his former manager when he was picked up by John the Barber who was notorious for ruining his fighters. Dempsey was smart not to fight Langford in 1916. 21 years old with no legitmate fights behind him. It would have been career (if not actual) suicide. Dempsey was getting cheated out of his money, had three ribs busted up after John Lester Johnson, it was a smart move by Dempsey and he should be applauded for it.

Joe Jeanette was more or less (sadly) finished by the time Dempsey won the title. If you're talking about Jeanette calling out Dempsey at one of Dempsey's fights or showing up as a last minute replacement, again, why would Dempsey or any other fighter fight someone of Jeanettes caliber as a last minute replacement? I would love it if Muhammad Ali was expecting to fight Willi Besmanoff in 1961 and instead of Besmanoff out comes Cleveland Williams!

I love the black dynamite fighters. But Jeanette, Langford, etc. were out of the picture by the time Dempsey really came into his own, crooked managers looking to scam 75% off the dollar by feeding fighters they didn't care about to the wolves or not... those were Johnson's fights. You would think Dempsey was champion in 1915! If you want to send a 20-21 year old underfed rookie against them while he was sleeping on park benches and railway stations what is the point?

 

A man who sits on a title for 3 years, then steps in the ring with a wrecking machine like Sonny Liston, is likely going to be in for a very sad ending. Although Dempsey was a very tough fighter, this would be a horrible matchup for him. A 38 year old Jess Willard is no comparison to a young Liston, and if we look at what Sonny did to Patterson, Machen, Folley and several others, this would be a clear indication of a short and pulverizing session for the mauler.

 

that's fine. But again Johnson was far too hated for this to happen

 

who says he's going to fight when past his prime. We are obiously taking the best versions of both fighters here

 

True, but I also mentioned Dempsey's meeting with Willard, which was at least close to his prime. Some feel that Dempsey, like Liston was better in his pre-title days. Nevertheless, even if we took Sonny around 1960 before the Patterson fights, he would be a terrible threat to Jack in my opinion.

 

Why are you choosing the post layoff Dempsey to be the one fighting Sonny Liston? How would the post WWII Joe Louis have faired against Liston? Or instead of Jerry Quarry, they matched Muhammad Ali after his layoff first fight back with a prime Sonny Liston?

Dempsey was not the same fighter after his Hollywood days. If you look at pictures of Dempsey in say, 1919, with one in 1926, you can see that he has declined physically in every single way. He had gone soft.

 

that's fair :good