Sonny Liston vs. Jack Johnson

I personally think Liston gets a bit overrated around here. Who'd he beat? Floyd Patterson? Yeah, so did Johannson. Cleveland Williams, Bert Whitehurst. I don't think he beat a guy nearly of the calibre of Johnson. When he fought a great fighter he found a way to quit and the second time around is qeustionable. Johnson by TKO in 10.

 

Could you explain please? Do you think the 2 eras were far apart and that the 60's fighter was vastly superior? I've seen the films of Johnson and he looks big, agile, and hostile.

 

I don't like Foreman's chances against Johnson, but I really like Liston's.

Liston didn't fight like a ravenous grizzly. He was a beast with class. Liston was technically skilled inside, mid-range, and outside, his defense was better than average, and although he was not as fast as a Louis or a Floyd or a Ali, he compensated with the kind of heavy, incoming pressure that could produce panic. Throw in the advanced technique relative to big men and many gloved ones may go to pieces.

Johnson, keep in mind, would in all likelihood not be allowed to clinch with impunity. He would not physically dominate the stronger man here. And Johnson would not fight Sonny like Cassius or Muhammad -Johnson liked to set traps and counter the living hell out of his man. The problem is that Sonny is better able to see and deal with that than a Tommy Burns or a Jim Jeffries. Or a prime Foreman.

Johnson's style was well-equipped for aggressive fighters who threw long, reaching punches, and wide arcs. Like fighters of that era. Like Foreman was prone to do. Johnson would pick these kinds of shots off with ease and when the man got in range, he'd slash them. Liston would pose different problems. He came in like a tank behind a ramming jab and threw short, explosive shots -up and down, in combination, that would exploit Johnson's old style, sharp-angled stance and backwards leaning style.

Liston by decision. He would put JJ down -balance shots among these, and may even stop him.

 

Stonehands, I don't disagree with anything you say about Liston. I just take in to account that he never beat a great fighter (with apologies to Patterson) and he showed he had some dog in him against Ali.

 

Johnson never faced anything like Liston either, my friend. And Liston, due to the fiascos in 1964 and 65, is a victim of near-sightedness. His formidability in his prime when he was pursuing his life's dream should not be forgotten. Liston is actually underrated by all but boxing purists. Join us. As it is now, I'm afraid that you don't appreciate the destructive capabilities of 1959 Liston.

Watch:
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ESB: You'll note at around 3:20 a brief clip of Liston and Foreman in the same ring.

 

I agree -to a point. A fighter with 20 fights who has a record overrun with Arguello types and performs well, may be in for a shock against a Pryor or an Armstrong type. In attention, when you are talking about early 20th century fighters, there are few modern-style technicians among them. So, it can be appropriate.

That being said, I don't usually bring it up except as a tit for tat. Then its an easy way to dismiss that point -because you do it with a mirror.

 

Good post I disagree with the outcome but a good alternative.

 

thanks. That "thanks" would have a capital "T" ....if you agreed with me.

 

Fair enough!

 

Sonny Liston by brutal early death.

Those old guys had massive heart but very little technique compared to modern fighters. Stop yelling at the neighborhood kids to get off your lawn and go look at some tapes.

 

Great clip Stonehands. I'll still take Johnson. I agree in general about the lesser technique back then, but I think a couple guys had skill which transcended their era (Johnson, Langford).

 

Who did Johnson beat of Liston's caliber?

 

Christ almighty, thank you.

It does not diminish Johnson's legacy that he could not magically do in one career what it took decades to accomplish. He did more than enough to develop the sport in his own era.

 

I go with Johnson. While he was no Ali in terms of fighting on his toes he was still quite agile in the ring and could judge distance very well. He wouldn´t move like Ali did but he after blocking/avoiding the slow jab of Liston he would close the distance pretty fast to avoid further punches and then fight him on the inside with a mix of punches thrown and wrestling. I can´t see anything Liston could do gainst that. I don´t see how Liston is the stronger man here, both are roughly equal in size but Johnson has a big experience advantage.
Additionally Liston beat only one atg fighter in his career who was made for him in Floyd Patterson, Johnson beat old Fitz and Jeffries and young Langford along with borderline greats McVey and Jeanette. So, Johnson also has an experience advantage againt the creme dela creme. Nah, I have no doub´t Johnson wins a big UD. Liston has a punchers chance but not much more imo.