Sonny Liston vs Jack Sharkey

Have to get on the Liston bandwagon here. On a good night, Sharkey might go the distance in a competitive fight, but it would be Liston's hand raised at the end.

 

Honestly, you could put another fighters head onto Jack Sharkeys shoulders and make him into top 10 material. Thats how good he was at his briliant best. Sadly we live in the real world where he found ways to loose to fighters like Machen and Folley. However there is always that wildcard.

What if he brings his A game?

 

Sharkey was inconsistent but maybe that gets exaggerated. How often did Sharkey bring his A-game and how good was it ?
He seems to get a lot of credit for fights against washed-up versions of Wills and Dempsey.
He looks good on film in some of his other fights but maybe he wasn't all that bad in some of his losses too. Maybe he met a lot of other inconsistent fighters on their best nights too.

 

Good perspective check

 

Sharkey had some inconsistent fights but so did Sonny. I favor Sonny because of his strength but Sharkey was underrated,tough and fought a faster puncher in Dempsey and Louis when he was older. Sharkey did beat Godfrey and a 37yr old Harry Wills,Schmeling and others...Sonny by SD or KO but Sharkey could pull a decision.

 

Watch. Enjoy.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8TGgAuOfxs[/ame]

 

I have seen it before but never so much of the fight, I hadnt realised how badly maloney was cut or how good jimmy was. sharkey could bang.

 

Could go either way. Anyone picking either fighter as a "clear" winner is ignoring that fighter's weaknesses. Sharkey was a very good, skilled boxer with the kind of powerful sneak right hand that Liston was open to, and he demonstrated his ability to handle guys as big or bigger than Liston. On the flipside, he was ground down and taken by a faded Dempsey, and outhustled/bullied by Tom Heeney and others, which certainly raises questions about how well he'd handle Liston's strength and pressure over an extended fight. If Liston doesn't become discouraged and quit at some point, he has a good shot at pressuring Sharkey into a mid- or late-round stoppage.

 

Absolutely. Sharkey was a great or near-great champion and HOFer, Folley and Machen were never more than decent but unspectacular contenders in mediocre eras.

Machen possibly, but he lacked all of Sharkey's other attributes (power, grit, determination, etc.).

Folley had nothing like Sharkey's style or skills. He had a good right hand, but he was basically one dimensional and fought flat footed.

 

Laughable, Liston is the clear favorite in everyones eyes but yours.

More like ignoring the consensus that Sharkey is not in the class of a Sonny Liston.

A powerless right hand that scored only 15 career knockouts. Besides, what fighter was this that exposed Liston's right hand flaw? Did you nitpick a couple fights where you saw maybe Whitehurst land 1 or 2 decent rights the whole fight? The only time of fighter Liston has a weakness for is someone whos bigger than him, very fast hand and feet, great skills, good power, good chin, and very tough. Sharkey does not qualify as this type of fighter.

But no one who was even remotely close to the jab, skills, ring science, and two fisted punching power of a Sonny Liston.

He wasn't ground down. Sharkey hurt, outboxed, outsmarted Dempsey the whole fight and was on his way to a near shut out unanimous decision win before Dempsey cheated and hit him in the balls. Dempsey should have been DQed.

Liston would knock out gooftrooper Tom Heeney in 1 round.

He wouldn't be able too. Liston is too big, strong, skilled, and powerful for Sharkey. Sharkey never fought a big man who could stick an 84" telephone pole in his face at a measured pace. Liston would completely overwhelm sharkey on the inside with his uppercuts and punching power, manhandle sharkey in the clines, and tee off on sharkey from long range with hooks and a blugeoning right hand. Sharkey won't last 5 rounds.

If Liston didn't get discouraged by a broken nose sustained against 6'3 215lb cleveland williams, I doubt he would get discouraged by anything Sharkey has to offer.

 

1. Folley and Machen were spectacular contenders in a good era, and typically get ranked among the best contenders never to win a title. Floyd Patterson's management wanted no part of these guys, and Ali said he could only imagine how good Zora must have been in his prime.

2. Folley was a lot more than that. His upperbody movement was very slick, he was adapt at blocking, he was very intelligent and knew how to use range. His left jab was very good, better than Sharkey's. He also had more power and handspeed. Zora was a tough guy to outpoint.

3. Machen did have power. Sharkey didn't. Sharkey scored only 15 career knockouts and hurt his right hand when he was a kid, which basically left him one handed.

Watch Machen flatten the durable Nino Valdes on youtube(his first knockout losss in 9 years)

 

To a childish poster, maybe.

You already RESPONDED to a post on the first page saying "Those who discount a Sharkey with his head put on straight don't know your ****." There's at least 2 or 3 other posters who have either said Sharkey would have a chance or would at least give him a good fight.

Of all the disgraceful LIES you've told on this board, this is probably your most pathetic one yet. :roll:

Would that be the same "consensus" that says Willie Joyce was not in the class of Jack Britton? Or that Dempsey's reign deserves at least a "B" rating?

Tell Tommy Loughran, Jack Delaney, Primo Carnera, and Jimmy Maloney his punch was "powerless."

Neither did Marty Marshall.

No, he had been outhustled in the previous round and was losing the round in which he was KO'd even before the low blow controversy.

Another of your typically unsubstantiated and unprovable claims.

Sure he did, when he fought Primo Carnera.

Liston didn't even do those things to Eddie Machen, who YOU just tried to claim had a "similar style and skills" as Sharkey. As usual, you're spinning things in so many directions that they're contradicting each other.

And you would've doubted that he would get discouraged by anything a guy who just barely squeaked by Doug Jones or Henry Cooper would have to offer as well.

 

No they weren't. Both the fighters and the division as a whole were roundly criticized in their day. Machen especially was criticized for his lack of fire and determination, and consistently fell short (and at times was outright embarrassed) in almost every significant fight he had where something substantial was on the line. Folley was probably better than Machen, but he was also less talented and was notably vulnerable to big punchers who simply let their hands fly.

...along with a number of other guys in the division. That didn't make Folley or Machen any better than what they actually were - as Machen's own fight with Patterson demonstrated.

No it wasn't, his jab was slow and intermittent. Henry Cooper was able to outjab him, and Doug Jones repeatedly either countered the jab, or slipped inside and worked him over on the inside.

At other times, he simply dispensed with the jab altogether and just looked to sucker his opponent into his counter right hand, as here:
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You only have to look at Machen's fight with Harold Johnson to see that his punches didn't even carry as much weight as Johnson's, let alone Sharkey's.

Unless you're also claiming Johnson hit harder than Sharkey as well?

What's the difference "how many" KOs he had if he demonstrated genuine power in the KOs that he scored?

And yet here you are downplaying Machen's power:

 

My insides hurt from laughing too much. Your actually comparing Primo Carnera's pawing left jab to Liston's snapping left jab? Btw, what happened when Carnera hit Jack Sharkey with an uppercut? If Sharkey thinks Carnera's uppercuts were powerful, I fear for his life against Liston.

 

Ask Ernie Schaaf what he thought of Carnera's "pawing" jab.

The same that happened when Ali hit Liston with a chopping right hand.