Sonny Liston vs James J Jefferies

The mental gymnastics I'd have to do in order for me to envision Jeffries being competitive, let along winning, is a bit too much for me on a Tuesday.

 

Jefferies simply doesn't have the skill to deal with Liston. His toughness can only take him so far.
Liston beats him down and stops him.

 

Jeffreis in the mid to late rounds.

 

I remember chatting the heavyweights with Nat Fleischer at ring magazine office in NY and he rated Jim Jeffries very high. Based off of what I was told by Nat and some of the old guys Jeffires was very athletic, quick & powerful. Since then I lean towards the many fighters that I have seen but based off of what i was told it may be a good fight.

If I had to bet I would go with Liston but if Jeffries was anything like the stories I was told he may be the winner.

Only saw a few old clips of Jeffries but the Johnson fight stands out. Jeffries was off for 6 yrs blew up 80lbs over fighting weight and fought Johnson with no tune up at the age of 35

Liston was dropped by 179lb Marshall and KO'd by Ali in 1 and later by Leotis Martin so this fight could offer a surprise

 

On what are you basing your estimate of Jeffries skill?

 

Some Interesting Liston info I found:

"Like so many of his fellow fighters who have found themselves behind bars, Liston was introduced to boxing by the jail's Roman Catholic priest.
Sonny found that he had naturally devastating power and he cleaned up the prison boxing circuit. He nearly beat one opponent to death and he dethroned the jail's reigning heavyweight hardman to cheers from the three thousand inmates watching.
Well-fancied St Louis professional Thurman Wilson (5-2-1)

This content is protected

with Liston before quitting when he visited the prison for sparring.(http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/38738)
It was his phenomenal fistic ability that would lead to Liston securing his freedom early.
He was paroled after agreeing to pursue the sport.

Placed in the custody of Frank Mitchell, a bulwark of the black community in St. Louis and owner of a small stable of fighters, in a brief amateur career, spanning less than a year, Liston captured the Chicago Golden Gloves championship on March 6, 1953, with a victory over Ed Sanders, and the Intercity Golden Gloves championship by decision over Julius Griffin. In the United States National (A.A.U.) Championship, Liston was defeated by Jimmy McCarter of Chester, Pennsylvania. (Note: McCarter appears to taken time off from boxing, maybe military service,...but returned to fight 18 fights as a pro begining in 1959 and fought some decent fighters until 1973 to finish at 9-7-2 http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/33061)

Liston then turned pro under a list of managers so mercurial that when Sen. Estes Kefauver's investigators asked Liston questions, he could not identify who owned pieces of him at any given time. He did admit knowing the notorious mobster Frankie Carbo and his lieutenant, Frank "Blinky" Palermo. "

Liston's Amateur record thru 1953: (In Spanish)
http://www.geocities.ws/pedrinet/liston.html

 

I agree with you on both accounts that the 2nd fight was shady and Ali never KO'd anyone with the anchor punch again, 1st fight Liston quit. Marshall fight Liston was young

As far as Marciano running from Liston, no one can say that seriously Liston was 12-1 when Marciano retired and no where in contention for a title shot, he was a few fights from the Marshall loss

1958, 59, 60, 61, were all years Liston began to fight contenders and he received a shot from Patterson in 1962 defended in 63 and lost to Ali in 64

 

Jeffries was a punishment sponge attrition fighter who relied on his physical advantages (strength, size, endurance, youth) to win his fights. Making youth relatively equal, he would have none of these over Liston. And Liston would have a jab, defense, length and power over Jeffries. This would be a slaughter. Whitey thought Johnson defiled their precious Jeffries? They better stay away from this one.

 

I consider this interpretation of Jeffries style to be highly debatable.

I also think that there is an argument to be had that Jeffries did batter against his larger opponents.

 

But his "batter" opponents weren't his larger opponents. Sharkey, Fitz, Corbett... I guess Johnson was decent sized... Oh, never mind.

 

Basically all written accounts I have read describing his style has him using his physical strength to absorb punishment while pressuring his opponent and coming on later after exhaustion his opponent then firing his hook. I believe the second Fitz bouts as well as the Corbett bouts are described this way if I remember correctly

 

Well he certainly didn't get a reputation for toughness by being a defensive genius...and are you comparing guys like Ruhlin and Armstrong to Liston

You know my stance I do not rate Jeff as an ATG and when I consider the beatings he took to be crowned an Ironman from a middleweight like the great Fitz I can only imagine what Liston would do with his sledgehammers

Now let's suppose he can take Sonny's power then it is possible Liston quits from attrition which he did in Clay/Ali 1.....I will at least submit to that possibility as there is no evidence of quit in Jeff

 

Jeffries superior stamina and persistent body blows see him to a late round stoppage of tough sonny listo n