Sonny Liston vs. Jim Jeffries

I dont think people realize how green liston was when he was taking on marshall and summerlin. he had less than 10 pro bouts with hardly any amatuer experience for crying out loud. Marciano struggled with lowry in his 20th pro bout with the same amount of amatuer experience, i dont see fogster and pontius critisizing him.

 

To be fair, Jeffries was cut into slices and then thrown to the wolves.

Joe Choynski while your pro record is in single figures?

 

It's not the end of the world, but Marciano was never down against Lowry or LaStarza.

The point was that Jeffries, while green, was never knocked down despite fighting tough opposition early, whereas Liston, under similar circumstances, was knocked down and arguably struggled more. Though on the other hand, Jeffries could out-last his opponents .. usually those fights went to a draw after 20 or so rounds if both men were still standing.

 

Marciano was nearly down against carmine vingo. when you say down what do you mean? listons was caught off balance and only his glove touched the canvas, you really want to count that against listons chin?

 

Is the fight on film? I've never seen it.

 

by the way who said liston could not win through adversity?


Listons first out of town fight was on june 29, 1954 a main event match in detroit against the michigan state heavyweight champion Johnny Summerlin, a veteran fighter who had lost only once in a career of over twenty pro bouts. Summerlin was a hometown hero and generally considered Michigans finest heavyweight.

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. but those odds mean nothing to sonny, and he was the victor that night before the capacity crowd of twelve hundred at the motor city arena.


six weeks later in a rematch, on august 10, in the same ring, televised by WWJ-TV liston won again.



"sonny liston could claim the Michigan title without dispute if he resided here"- Detroit News 8-11 1954



"His hometown is parelleling his rise of that of joe louis, a bit of a wishful thinking often enganged in on behalf of other heavyweights since the mid thirties."- Harry Stapler on liston in 1954


"At this stage of his career, I would say Liston is a better prospect than Joe Louis at a comparable point." - Bill Appelton one of the judges of Liston-Summerlin II talking to Detroit Free Press 8-11-54

 

How would you know?


"Being hit by Liston," Valdez observed, "was like being kicked by a mule.

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Sonny was the strongest man I ever fought and he was very tough.

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."- Nino Valdez

Obviously your interpretation is incorrect and valdez did hit liston with some very hard blows which liston took without blinking.

That doesnt mean valdez didnt get a couple good clocks in there before getting knocked out. Valdez admitted to hitting liston hard, but liston took the punches without buckling.

Valdez may have been old, but at 34 he was still 5 years younger than the corrie sanders who vitali beat. Valdez also prior to the liston fight was rated in the top 10 and had beaten 3 ring magazine rated contender in 1958. Power is the last thing to go, and liston with his size and power was still a dangerous puncher when he fought liston

If williams had the chin of a placekicker, then I only wonder how bad wlads chin is. only sonny liston ever knocked down a prime cleveland williams 1957-1964. no other man did. wlad in his twenties was knocked out 3 times.

I disagree, williams marshall and valdez attested how ferocious sonny liston got when you tagged him with hard shots, he came back like a tiger and put the hurt on you. jeffries a moverboxer? LOL more like a big punching bag who supermiddleweights had no trouble teeing off on. jeffries did not like it when you stuck a long jab in his face, nor did he have good defense. jeffries on film also had alot of trouble manhanding much smaller fighters.

Dejohn was 6'5 207lb far bigger than any opponent jeffries ever fought, and dejohn had 34 kos out of 47 wins a high knockout percentage, not to mention george chuvalo called dejohn the hardest hitter he ever fought. Dejohn had a thunderous left hook. what film have u seen of dejohn.

not even close. patterson Folley and machen were far better more modernized boxing styles than anyone jeffries fought. Williams Valdez Dejohn were bigger better sluggers than any large man jeff ever fought. i dont think its close. sharkey was midget small and easy to hit and jeff couldnt put him away, fitz was old and a supermiddleweight who hurt jeff numerous times, choynski who jeff couldnt beat was a supermiddleweight, corbett was old and ahead on points. liston dominated his top opposition far more than jeff ever did.

I disagree, liston cleaned out his division pre title. there was no one left to fight except the greatest in his title reign since he had beaten all the other top contenders. I think listons resume is one of the most underated, it is marked with very highly skilled technicians and dangerous big sluggers all who liston dominated.

 

Boxing Illustrated, I think. This is my memory of reading the report of the fight back in the 1960's. Always possible my memory is failing me, but I think Earls had Sonny down before being ko'd himself.

 

well he had a 65lb weight advantage on choynski, I am more impressed with his demolition of the respectable Hank Griffin, the biggest man he ever beat.

 

Jeffries time-machined into early 1960's: I think Sonny has a good chance.

Liston time-machined into mid-early 1900's: tough call.

Jeffries and Liston coming along at the same time: I'd somewhat favor Jeffries in Liston's time; fairly heavily favor Jeffries in Jeffries time.

 

Well, why should I criticize Marciano when Mendoza lives for that?

Seriously, you might be too sensitive. I wasn't actually trying to criticize Liston, whom I would consider a top ten heavyweight. I was just pointing out that it might be unfair to Jeffries to focus so much on his opponents being less than 200 lbs. As I pointed out or could point out, Dempsey, Louis, and Marciano had more trouble with under 200 lbers. Yes, Lowry gave Marciano trouble, as did LaStarza, and Walcott and Moore had him down. Dempsey struggled with several small men. Louis was ko'd by Schmeling. Jeffries fought men as large as all these men and it is only realistic to point it out, and in fairness, none knocked him down or out.

 

There has been no evidence recollection ever reported of liston being floored in that fight, surely that would have been reported. perhaps you misread??


Toxie Hall floored rocky marciano, but many people dont know about that

 

I dont think Jeffries had either the power or the boxing ability of Liston .Jeffries wore his small opponents down usually after shipping significant punishment himself,we dont know that he could take Listons best shots ,or how he would react to having that pole of a jab slammed into his face.We do know Liston took the best shots of Williams without blinking.If Jeffries could soak up the heavy punches that would undoubtedly land on him ,he might out last Liston ,but its an IF.

 

I admit that relying on a forty-year old memory is tricky. If I remember the quote, it was in the context that Liston was clearly aging.

Several champions have been floored in sparring or exhibitions, including Jeffries.