Sonny Liston vs Joe Frazier 15 rds

I am afraid so. A great slugger vs. swarmer dilemma.

 

The prime Frazier that beat Ali in 1971 , would win on points...

Joe was mentally strong wouldn't be intimidated by Sonny at all, he would be in better shape because he worked harder and would simply outwork Liston over a long 15 round fight....

Not to mention would Liston be able to stand up under the left hook from hell , that would be landing on his grill:huh

 

Did Frazier hit harder than Williams? If Mike Bruce could floor a green Frazier and Bonavena twice deck a mature one ,couldn't Liston go one better and keep him on the deck? I don't think Frazier would outwork Liston simply because imo, the fight would not go past the middle rounds.Shorter swarmers coming into Liston are in for a very bad if short evening.

I think Liston's left hook was harder than Frazier's, and also his right. and his chin better.
He also is the better boxer with a great jab. Frazier has better speed and stamina but the latter would not be a factor because the fight would be over before it came into the equation .
To win this Frazier has to absorb that jab round after round ,try and get inside where he will be met with short hooks and uppercuts .I don't see it happening.

 

Joe bobbed and bobbed past Ali's much faster jab. Liston was not an inside fighter, if Frazier can get close his workrate and left hook wears a mentally fragile bully down, my take.

 

Against Ali Frazier took a lot of jabs, as his face showed after each fight Ali's jab was faster, Liston's much harder.
Liston was very good inside his early fights demonstrate it . Plus he was a two handed banger, Frazier was not. Frazier would have to take this into the late rounds and try and tire Liston.I'm reasonably confident he would fail.

 

Joe's bobbing movement would be hard to time without Ali-like speed though. I think it was Whitehurst who reckoned that Liston could be defeated by an close-in fighter inside Sonny's long arms.

 

Prime Frazier is not the guy who Foreman beat.

Liston jabs hard and has an excelent arsenal. But Frazier doubles up with lead power shots and was pin point at a lot of ranges in his prime, not just inside. On the way in. Joe is also a lot faster. His stamina was incredible.

So the way I see it Sonny has to land a jab before Joe can land a hook and Joe was mighty hard to time with a jab faster than Liston had. As Ali found out. If Joe lands first he is inside and at 200lb he is harder to throw around than 180lb patterson and westphal. It could be an endurance game.

But as with all fights where both can hit hard anything can happen. I give Joe the edge.

 

"It'd be like shooting crabs in a barrel"-Sonny Liston

 

Whitehurst might be correct but said infighter is going to take a lot of punishment to get inside and Frazier's face used to swell up badly.Whitehurst's name regularly comes up in conversations about Liston,often because he went the distance twice with him. What is usually overlooked is that at the end of their second fight Whitehurst was attempting to get back in the ring after the count had reached 7 when the bell to end the fight rang saving him from a probable ko.

 

Liston is going to call Joe Frazier's church choir out on intimidating him into a puddle. "They said they'd give me a picnic I'd never forget if I didn't take a dive!"

 

Liston didnt throw either Patterson or Westphal around ,he didnt have time in three fights they lasted a total of 6 minutes and 18seconds .
Sonny stopped plenty of 200lbs + guys and it didn't take him11 rds of beating on them to do it.

 

Frazier 's best was likely in the later rounds & Liston's best is likely in the earlier rounds; Joe was likely better over 15 rounds than Liston, but the question I have is can Joe get through those early rounds?

Joe was floored early by Evans (?), Bonavena & Foreman in the first fight, but was green(er) against the first 2 & past it for Foreman & Smoke walked in stupidly in Kingston.

Joe's second fight against Foreman might give an interesting pointer - he didn't walk in regardless in the 2nd Foreman fight and was more successful (to a degree) than in the first fight, despite being clearly washed up - although it has to be said that psychologically George wasn't the same force against Frazier in '76 as he was in Kingston.

My point is this; if Joe goes in against Liston in the gung-ho fashion he did against Foreman the first time, he probably gets wiped out early. If Smoke goes in a little more cleverly against Liston he COULD get through those early rounds and break Liston's heart later on, for I have no doubt that Frazier was a braver fighter than Liston.

Who would I back? Because Sonny's best chance comes first I would probably back Liston, but with the caveat that if Joe gets through the first 4 or 5 rounds WITHOUT taking too much damage, I would then start to back Joe.

How do you like that for hedging my bets?

 

your forgetting, joe was blind in his right eye though. would he still walk through liston then?

 

Liston couldn't deal with Ali's mind games....quit in both of their fights in 1964 and '65...Joe kicked Ali's ass in 1971...you tell me...Frazier was much tougher mentally...go with Joe...