Sonny Liston vs Joe Frazier: Video

Spare me. Liston finished a fight with a BROKEN JAW(excrutiating pain) and also came back to win a fight after getting his nose badly broken. When did Vitali ever show heart like this? Vitali looked to me he had only a couple rounds left against Lewis...lewis was getting to him big time.

If fighting 6 rounds with a broken jaw is not a display of heart...then I don't know what is. There have also been many instances in history where fighters have quit once they got their nose broken(Genaro Hernandez, Francisco Damiani) for example. Liston, instead, fired back and knocked him out in the next round.

 

If you think that Liston/Williams was a war on the level of, or that it entailed anywhere near the kind of adversity seen in, Lewis/Klitschko, I'd advise you to look again. Liston took a few decent combinations but nothing spectacular.

Am I a "neutral *****"? When there's no evidence (or conflicting evidence), there's nothing to say.

Are you even reading my posts? I explicitly said that the Lewis fight is not indicative of his being a ***** not because "he later protested a stoppage" but because he fought through a war.

Sustaining a broken jaw in a fight you are winning and will win easily and going on is not overcoming the kind of adversity that sustaining a virtually collapsed eye socket and monstrous gash across your face in a fight that could have gone either way and saw the heaviest slugging in the last decade of boxing is. Vitali had much more adversity to face, even if Liston may have been in a comparable amount of pain.

Remember, "*****" is still in a relativized sense.

And stop distorting what I said, McGrain, mate!

 

That's trademarked, I should get royalties for this.

 

I love how Liston is getting torn a new ******* in these last few weeks.

His fans are getting a well needed dosage of reality. I'm starting to see an almost Tyson 86-88 type pattern with Liston fans and Liston's prime from a few posters in this thread. I blame Chuck Wepner.

 

I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about my trademarks.

I ****ing love, absolutely love that you did this. AND I Knew in typical McGrain fashion that you would come here talking about how I picked Green. I didn't ****ing pick Green. Find me a quote where I picked Green or thought he was going to win. If not (Which you can't), then shut the **** up. My suspicion had more to do with not being sold on Ward than Green. I also thought the fight would be on the outside a lot more then it was. I didn't even make a ****ing pick. Unlike you, you don't say jack **** about anything in general. Obviously because you don't to ever get ripped on or you care too much about your status. I've never ever seen you ever go out a limb ever.

I saw Green against Simms in his last fight and wasn't very impressed. I thought he would bring more, and my comments were partly emotional, partly not thinking Ward would play the role of Joe Frazier for 12 rounds. Like I said before, more on not being sold on Ward than Green. Obviously I am now.

And don't even talk to me about scoring fights.

Thank for actually bringing this up. Further proves you not acknowledge and read my posts but verifies that you love to try distorting the **** out of things for your own benefit. I knew you would do this, it's not unlike you. You're clearly more obsessed about me. Quite funny. So obsessed you have to get present things wrong just to spite me.

 

A sneaking suspicion is not a pick. It's a gut feeling at best. My official pick was been Ward decision, but I didn't bother posting about it as just about everyone thought he was going to win.

Congratulations on picking Ward. And all the details in the world doesn't matter when you get it as wrong as you can. I wouldn't brag about that... Green will bring the fight to Ward, Ward will stop Green.

]quote]Now, you.

How the **** is "i have a sneaking suspicion that Green is going to upset Ward" not a pick? Of COURSE it's a pick. A terrible one. [/quote]

Are you ****ing kidding me? A sneaking suspicion is a sneaking suspicion? Where's the ****ing belief in that. It's not a pick, I didn't pick Green. If I had you would've known because I'm not afraid to against the grain and I'm bold, unlike you. I just felt better about Green's chances than most did, which I was obviously wrong on (AS you are about Green getting stopped and bringing the fight to Ward).

Actually, I would be the better analyst. You are the more knowledgeable.

1. I score fights better than you.

2. I scored round 1 10-10 although scoring it for Green is not unrealistic. Green jabbed and moved forward while Ward was taking his time and patiently finding a rhythm.



If you want to go prediction against prediction, analysis against analysis we can do that all day. Of course, you're going to falsely distort evidence but that's fine. I'd love to see all your picks along with your betting account cash.

But basically, if you had any honor you would shut the **** out. As I never said Green would win, didn't say I thought Green would win. A sneaking suspicion is a pick in your mind.

 

I think that Green has an edge in strength, edge enough to make any sojourn to the inside very uncomfortable for Ward. Although he looks a good infighter, I don’t think that is the range the WBA super-middleweight champion will enjoy fighting at.

LOL. Loving this analysis.

I think Ward will look to stay outside and box, flashing leads in with either hand from either stance. If Green feels he is being out-jabbed, which is something I expect to see, his ability to close the distance on Ward becomes paramount. Is it something he can do?

Could he get it more wrong in his analysis? This is what he was bragging about.

 

That's why I still thought Ward would win. Ward's my pick, but I fancied Green's chances. It's not a pick you buffoon. You've never had any conflicted thoughts in a fight? It's like a percentage game. If I had thought Green would win I would've said something more powerful than sneaking suspicion. Hell I would've picked him.

To the point of almost betting the rest of my Vcash to ledger a Ward decision. But I don't care about Vcash, I just mess around and try hitting the big win.

You thought Ward would fight on the outside and control distance. He fought directly at Green pushing him back. You said Green was too strong and that he would trouble Ward inside. That's absolutely 100% wrong.

Based on what. You think I picked Paulie over Khan No wonder you think that.

You don't have the right to call anyone a liar.

I scored round 1 a draw but I could see how you could give it to Green.

I wouldn't give the first round to Ward. It would be a draw or 10-9 for Green. Wasn't a shutout.

Of course not. That's what you can't keep the topics related to the subject. You have to talk about me, or how I'm talking about you (When I'm not), and then talk about how my picks are funny when I never made those picks. You're a lieing, manipulative, distorter of reality. You care more about your status here, and how you're percieve than actually posting and learning about a sport. You care more about my posts, and talking about me rather than the topics at hand. You've never been bold, never shown an adequate ability to break fights down or predict them correctly. Never gone against the grain. You can only harp on cheap points like my joking about picking Paulie over Khan or trying to create a reality that doesn't exist (Like me picking Green to win).

The only thing crazy is being disturbed about me talking about, then changing subjects only to talk about me. Strange.

 

Yet still got my prediction closer. Ward hardly had to control range as Green was frozen on the inside. Ward didn't let the ref separated, Green held and wanted that. Completely off.

Yes, your last paragraph talks about Ward having the power to stop Green. Green was beaten up, but never in danger of being stopped or worn down.

Truly Nostradamus. Really compares to my analysis of Clottey shelling up against Pac refusing to engage to try and win. That's a fight everyone knew who would win, like this one... but at least I'm specifically right or bold about how a fight will take place.