Sonny Liston vs Joe Frazier

In a nutshell.

 

If Liston gets close Wladimir could simply clinch. The big men Liston were fighting were 6'2-6'3 weighing in the 210s. Is that really relevant to someone is 6'5 1/2 and 240+. When did Liston face a puncher like Wladimir. Why would his chin be expected to hold up?

 

Mcvey great points about Frazier’s top knockout wins being victims who beat the count and lost the fight while on their feat.

How many top men did Frazier put down for the 10 count?

This points to Frazier being a sharp fast accurate puncher who wore folks down but not an all time concussive one...with that said Frazier’s left hook was one of the best ever. His right hand just a body punch and a decoy

 

Throwing 5 left hooks consecutively in 2 seconds vs Austin, for starters.

Liston isn't as fast or explosive as Wlad, nor does he have that level of movement. It is what it is. Wlad is also stronger and hit harder. Why do I say that? Because he has a better knockout percentage and more KO's against bigger fighters and ragdolled bigger fighters. Wlad also beat a wider range of opponents.

The point of the Byrd reference is to show just how absurd it is to think someone that size beats Wlad on the outside or bullies him on the inside. We know what 6'1, 215 looks like vs Wlad. Make that fighter an inferior defensive talent (and compared to Byrd, Liston is), and you get a replay of the Mercer massacre.

I also find it hilarious that size only matters for Liston when he's the one with the advantage . Happens all the time in these fantasy matchups with Rocky and Joe, yet it doesn't matter when it comes down to the even larger size differences between Sonny and Lennox, Wlad, Vitali, etc. Convenient.

Back to the original topic... Joe would chop him down because Liston's jab was too slow for peak Frazier's upper boddy movement and Sonny had a bad habit of pulling it back low because most fighters couldn't capitalize on it. Joe could with his left hook. And he would.

 

Liston was vulenerable to fast overhand rights off the jab not left hooks. Frazier had no right to the head

Also let’s talk Frazier’s vulnerable areas...he was highly susceptible to getting hit with uppercuts and big hooks two of listings best punches. He Also proved he didn’t have the strength or durability to go toe to toe with a fighter comparable to Liston in strength and punching power

 

I see it going like Foreman/Fraizer 2

 

Liston was vulnerable to left as exhibited in bouts with both Marty Marshall and Bert Whitehurst. Marshall famously broke Sonny’s jaw. I would put Smokin’ Joe’s power and movement against either of them all day long.

Frazier by later round ko.

 

Wrong thread bro

 

Howard Casell (sic) wasn’t nearly enough of a snide punk to make a chicken shiz comment like that and he never saw Hayes or Dirrell get knocked down.

 

So was Frazier vulnerable to a right hand because tomato can michale Bruce floored him?

And mauler Oscar bonavena floored him twice and nearly knocked him Out in the first round??

I don’t believe that to be true, but you’re critisizing Liston for losing only his 6th pro fight

 

No, I am not criticizing Sonny for losing just the contention that he was invulnerable to left hands. I also suspect he would have struggled with Joe crowding him.

 

I don't need to compare them to Frazier ,I'm not the one using exaggerated,inaccurate phrases like "snuffed out," and ,"explosive knockouts"
I repeat Frazier's most prestigious actual ko is over cruiser weight Doug Jones .
He was an attrition puncher and needed time to wear down the better guys, while getting that time he would also be getting a size 14" fist in his face on the end of an 84" jab and when closing the range he would be absorbing big left hooks ,right crosses ,and uppercuts.
I'm saying he gives before Sonny does!
I'm also saying I've already seen this fight, it was in Kingston Jamaica!

We know Wlad's chin doesnt hold up when its tagged.Liston faced several punchers ,I've named 3 none of them dropped him.

 

Sonny liston is overrated like hell on this forum.
Everything based on nothing only speculation and smoke. This h2h monster
Is myth that never did beat anybody except patterson and the mediocre cleveland williams. Joe frazier has by farrr more credentials than liston PROVED WITH FACTS ON THE RING. FRAZIER WOULD KICK HIS ASS

 

He beat :
Harris
Bethea
Patterson
Valdes
Machen
DeJohn
Folley
Williams
Who of his era has a better resume at heavyweight?

 

Frazier's claim to fame is his one win over a light hitting Ali. How this is relevant to matchups with massive punches I dont understand. Getting whacked by Ali will not be like absorbing shots from a liston or a tua