Sonny Liston vs Joe Frazier

Liston's one glaring flaw ,his lack of decent footwork and ability to cut off the ring is a non-factor here because Frazier has to come to him. It would be like the Light Brigade charging into the guns at Balaclava.

 

Of course I don't think they would beat Liston, I just think that kind of opponent would have given us all a better idea of how Liston got on with the kind of world rated strong man resistance they would offer. Would Liston have looked so spectacular? Remember Liston had a lot of size over Folley, Patterson and Roy Harris who represent the highest placed fighters Sonny ever beat.

Maybe Sonny blows bonavenna and chuvalo to smithereens. Maybe he struggles. Who knows? He did not fight that kind of rated guy. Not his fault of course. One thing is sure I could only put my house on Sonny and dismiss the chances of a prime joe frazier so lightly as you do if Sonny had of dealt with that kind of bigger strong rated fighter as swiftly as he dealt with the Follys and Roy Harris's.

Saying any great fighter gets blown away in his prime is a bit silly. Prime fighters don't get beat easily even on a bad day. Take Tyson it took an awfully long beating from Douglas to stop him. Same with Joe Louis against Schmelling. Prime all time great fighters are harder to beat than that.

The point is I am happy to vote for prime Joe Fraziers pin point relentless leading with power shots, rolling defence, proven toughness and relentless swarming against Sonny Liston, even if I also accept Sonny has a chance too. What's wrong with that?

 

Back to putting words in people's mouths again , when did I suggest Liston blows Frazier away? I rate Cleve Williams as better than Harris and would make him favourite to beat Folley and possibly Patterson too, he was big, fast and hit like a ton of bricks. Liston ruined him twice.

 

With a bit more research I think you would take most of that back. Williams was a good fighter but he's been built up to be something he wasn't. Exciting but limited at a good level. Patterson and Folley were a lot more proven. It is kind of silly to go out on a limb for Williams. Hurricane Jackson was proberbly a better fighter.

 

What research do I need to do? Hurricane Jackson was mentally deficient.

 

Maybe so but jackson beat better fighters than Williams did. Drawing with machen (at around the time of machens breakdown) and beating Terrell as a novis (before Terrell was ranked) is about as good as it got for Williams. It is not a lot to go on. Jackson beat Clarence Henry, Dan bucceroni, Ezzard Charles, Rex Layne, Bob Baker, Johnny Williams when they were rated. He was as tall and as fast as Williams too.

 

Looking at it now, at his best, Joe would not be bothered by Sonny's overrated intimidation, and would take it to him.After surviving some scary moments, Joe stops Sonny late in the 12th round.

 

Machen's breakdown was several months after he drew with Williams. Charles and Layne were on the way out when Jackson fought them.Henry was having his last fight and was losing as many as he won by then.

 

Liston did not fight either Bonavena or Chuvalo, but he did fight a prime Zora Folley who beat both of them. Liston kod Zora in 3 rounds.

 

I didn't introduce it Choklab did.

To be honest I think your last debate with him was unecessarily abusive on your part, though I agreed with your argument. One thing about Chocky he is polite, often totally off the wall, but courteous.

Try debating with ****ed up Foxy if you want to become exasperated!

 

Well it's a point of view.

 

Liston is almost as good a puncher as Foreman, but with a better skill set. He's also very strong and has a good set of whiskers. This doesn't bode well for Joe. I'm thinking Liston wins by mid-round stoppage.