sonny liston vs joe louis

Louis may be faster and throws shorter punches than Louis, but the discrepancy was not that great. Plus Liston was more durable and would have a strength advantage. Liston also had a better jab and was more adaptable if things weren't going his way. He could change styles in the middle of a fight as shown against Machen, and Williams I. Louis was not capable of doing this. I say Liston has a great chance of stopping Louis in the mid rounds. If not, then he wins a unanimous decision.:good

 

Nope, he had done **** all to deserve a title shot in 1958. He didn't beat a single ranked contender during that year.

In 1959 he was ranked #3 so he was in a good position to get a title shot, but Patterson had just lost it to Johansson so how could he have given Liston a title shot? After that he (rightfully) had two more fights with Johansson to complete a very entertaining trilogy.

After that he took on one easy defense and faced Liston after.
Realistically, he could've fought Liston from early 1961 and he did so mid-1962. I really don't understand why Patterson gets so much **** for this.

I mean, avoiding a challenger for little over one year is absolutely NOTHING compared to Dempsey avoiding Wills for 9 (yes, nine) years, Johnson avoiding Langford, Jeannette and Mcvey for 5+ years, Holmes avoiding Thomas and others for several years, Bowe ducking Lewis until he retired, etc.

What makes it even more unconceivable is that Patterson rarely ranks higher than #13 on ATG lists, while Dempsey, Johnson and Holmes are always in the top10 (often in the top5) but for some reason, only Patterson gets **** for it while the higher ranked ones should be held to higher standards!

 

since when did you need to beat a ranked contender to deserve a title shot? pete radamacher was 0-0 and got a title shot. roy harris had not beat one ranked contender to get a title shot in 1958..

sonny liston knocked out in 1 round top 10 ranked contender wayne bethea.

 

I rank patterson very high chris.

 

Its all opinion, whose your top 3?

your opinion. I disagree with you, Sonny Liston is underated. Just note that the consensous during his time was historians viewed him as a top 5 heavyweight ever.

not really. many ATGs have alot of flaws in their resume and struggled with their top opposition. unlike sonny. i dont know how high u rate holmes or lennox but if you at both resumes both have much more flaws than liston did and both struggled much more with their top opposition than liston did.

then why is joe louis # 1 because he certainly did not accomplish more than muhammad ali.

so sam langford is not a great fighter since he never was champion? "but sam was ducked for a decade", NOPE SORRY WOULDA COULDA SHOULDA.

Liston already cleaned out his division pre title. there was no one left to face that he hadnt already beaten once he became champ. his one title defense was an impressive 1 round demolition of ATG floyd patterson

its all a matter of opinion. I happen to think the late 1950s-early 1960s was a strong period in heavyweight boxing, with lots of dangerous contenders.

Liston beat 4 of the top 5 heavyweights of his era in a 3 year span, sporting a phenominal 6-0 record vs them! not many heavyweight champs can lay claim to that!!

maybe not yet, but summerlin was 19-1 and less than a year later he would be a contender for marcianos crown. dont forget this was listons 4th pro fight. how many HW champs fought such stiff competition so soon?

Valdez may have been past his prime, but the year before he knocked out 3 top 10 contenders and still very much at 34 had that dangerous vaunted power that he was known for in the early 1950s. So i would say valdez was still dangerous with his size, power, jab despite being a bit over the hill.

I disagree, I believe Folley and Williams were on a jerry quarry and ron lyle level of great contenders. Folley was a master boxer with one of the best jabs ive seen(watch film of folley in late 1950s, not the washed up slow folley who fought ali). Williams at 6'4 215lb with wicked hanspeed, deadly power, stiff jab, and strength that would be a threat to any champ who ever lived.

how high do you rate larry holmes? he failed to unify even 1 title in 7 years, failed to take on many of the top more experienced alpha champs of his era, and never gave rematches in close fights.

Many other champs miss out on fighting some of the best of their era.


out of all the heavyweight champions, how many of them were able to beat 4 of the top 5 heavyweights of his era in a 3 year span all of them being in their prime(williams, folley, machen, patterson), sporting a phenominal 6-0 record vs them! I dont think any heavyweight champ perhaps besides marciano and tyson can lay claim to that!

 

larry holmes also struggeld terribly with tim witherspoon, carl williams, ken norton, mike weaver in all close/controversial fights. guess what? NO REMATCH!!

larry holmes failed to take on pinklon thomas, greg page(who at one point was mandatory # 1 contender holmes threw his belt in trash rather than fight him), tony tubbs, michael dokes, gerrie coetzee.


holmes failed to unify 1 belt in 7 years. in comparison tyson unified all 3 belts in a span of 1 year!



Liston fought summerlin 2x, Machen, Dejohn, Valdez, Bethea, Williams 2x, Folley, Patterson 2x and dominated them all easily far more than holmes dominated his top opposition.

 

are you saying Johnny summerlin was a weak fighter? have you ever seen him on film? know anything about his career? i dont think so. he was one of the biggest underachievers of his era, but make no mistake about it he had the talent!


george chuvalo said mike dejohn was the hardest hitter he ever faced. that mean anything??? i think so

and what has holmes done? controversial split decisions over 35 year old norton, williams, witherspoon(no rematches). and wins over berbick, weaver, cooney, shavers, mercer thats about it. holmes struggled with these guys alot more than liston struggled with his top competition.

thats no exuse. tyson unified all 3 belts in one year. holmes didnt unify one belt in 7 years.

what about holmes not fighting thomas, dokes, page(mandatory # 1 in 84), coetzee, tubbs?

 

many posters on this site keeping telling me this is the age where fighters have physically declined. this is the arguement i get from marciano detractors who put down the legitamacy of marcianos top wins.

sorry but WBC WBA IBF rankings dont count. half of holmes title defenses were against ham and eggers who had no business getting a title shot.

Many of the contenders of listons era(johannsen, cooper, johnson, terell, frazier, cleroux, chuvalo etc) refused to get in the ring with sonny.

 

Have Louis box a faster dude than Patterson ? NO
box he a harder hitter then A PRIME Cleverlend Williams ? NEVER
Im sure that fight ends like Liston vs Patterson...
when you don´t knock a max schm..... out....then dont **** with Sonny
Im love Joe,but he is littl bit overrated,his footwork was like valuev footwork..and Sonny was a beas with power,size,hardest jab,hard jaw and very good footwork...Sonny jabs,jabs,jabs,then came a big uppercut and a left hook...and over
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIIx9h7yhaw[/ame]

 

Liston could hit...but so could Joe...Louis by KO...