Sonny Liston vs. Larry Holmes

Holmes vs Shavers I and II makes me lean towards "The Easton Assassin."

 

Holmes has a better jab, and much better ring generalship. While Liston had a heavy jab, he wasn't quite classed as a brilliant boxer throughout his career. It was mainly used to get himself into range for the heavy artillery. Holmes' jab was a point scorer, and he could control opponents with the jab alone. Liston's power would be the biggest concern for Holmes.


Holmes TKO10

 

As Joiner correctly pointed out, he boxed Holmes before Larry really cultivated his jab. It was not yet the weapon he decked Ocasio with.
It was certainly faster than Liston's, and Ali demonstrated what happened when Liston faced a faster long jab than his own. Larry was a pure boxer, and Liston was a physically durable customer, so Holmes would take the 15 round UD here. It comes down to hitting and not getting hit, and with Larry's speed and mobility, those advantages are all his.

That Holmes had the bigger heart is something few dispute. He is also far more intelligent than most HW champions, and wouldn't have indulged in the foolish mistakes Henry Clark did in 1968. (I realize that wasn't the Sonny of old, but Clark did leave himself available to be hit, yet was on his feet at the end.) If Liston had been facing a peak Holmes instead of Machen, Larry would have won that decision comfortably.

 

Liston's jab I think is a bit better. It was harder and it had more of an effect on his opponents. Holmes was suceptible to the right, and Liston had a good right hand as well as the left. In his prime, Liston wasn't really suceptible to any particular punch as he had pretty solid defense and could slip punches very well with his head and shoulders. I think this fight could go the distance, with Holmes being the aggressor. Larry's greater handspeed would mean he would maybe land more punches, but Liston's inside work is superior to Holmes, and if Liston ever got inside it would spell trouble for Larry as he was not a good inside fighter. I expect it to be a good fight, but when it's over I expect Liston's hand to be raised.

Sonny Liston UD 15 Larry Holmes (9-6):good

 

It's a difficult fight. If you match them prime-for-prime, we're talking about Holmes between 1978-1982. I saw Holmes fight in person several times, and he was a very, very special fighter.

With Liston, in terms of his prime, we're talking several years before his fight with Joiner. The Joiner fights were in 1968 and 1969. Liston probably peaked in the late 1950s up until the early 1960s. If Liston was able to counter the Holmes jab, it would be very hard for Holmes to win that fight. Liston was a monster puncher, and his own jab would figure into the fray.

Toss up for me.

 

The jabs were different, so it's hard to say which was better. Liston's was more powerful, but Homes sharper.

 

I like Sonny in this one.

Not only was his jab powerful and his reach long but he also threw his jab long by rolling his shoulder as it was nearly at full extension.
The big thing in this fight for me is that I dont think Holmes had the head movement of Ali, he may technically have better defence but Ali kept Liston off rhythm by making him miss and timing him as he fell in from rediculous angles. Holmes is more orthodox and even if Sonny doesnt land clean he still hits Larry on the arms and gloves and can still keep balanced and throw the combinations he was unable to against Ali. I just cant see Larry making him miss 5 or 6 shots in a row by rolling his head.

 

Holmes, by close UD. This one has the makings of a classic: 9-6 in rounds, I reckon. :good

 

Good points.

Liston's jab is heavier than Holmes, much heavier.

But you have to realise that that is a very small factor in the battle of jabs.
What is are more important factors?
Speed, by far. Reach, technique and consistency also come into play. Liston had a 84' inch wingspan but that was mostly due to wide shoulders. Williams, at 6'3 79" looked to have a longer reach, which incidentally is about the same in measurements as Holmes'. Holmes is more consistent with the jab and he is much faster with it.

Ali completly neutralised Liston's powerful jab with speed. While Holmes is a tad slower, he still outspeeds Liston by a significant margin. I think that will play an important role during the entire fight. I think Larry will fight safe and box to a comfortable decision. How will Liston deal with the jabs and right hands? He looked awefully swollen and cut after a mere 6 rounds with a light hitting and running Ali. Holmes did not have that weakness nor did he ever quit as blatantly as Liston.

 

This is how I see it. Holmes via decision. He was quicker, and smart enough to know where and when to engage with Liston. I’ll mention two X factors that swing in Holmes' favor in this fantasy fight.

Liston had issues with cuts. Holmes had a great jab and a way of marking up his man.

Holmes would not be intimidated as much as Liston's other opponents. Intimidation was a major weapon of Liston's.

 

Imagine both of these men did their homework before entering the ring. Liston would have put up one hell of a fight in the earlier rounds. And if those early rounds weren't too successful for Liston you would see Holmes start to take over the fight and win by decision. This fight is a pick'em folks. There is no distinct winner, but a very interesting fantasy prospect to mull over here.

 

Both fighters are tough and have their advantages,i think Liston had the better corner, and in his prime had a Spartan like training regimen.Sonny takes it.

 

Liston had a better corner than Eddie Futch and Ray Arcel?

Where training regimens are concerned, Holmes sometimes blew hot and cold, but he actually overtrained for Witherspoon, in his desire to forget he was primarily a boxer, and try to take Awful Timmy out.

Larry went 15 rounds with Norton, Berbick and Cobb, finishing strongly in all three. Sonny never went beyond 12 rounds, although he was fine at the end against Machen. Still, his performance against Machen was not quite up to the standard of Holmes' 12 round shutout of Shavers.

 

This is exactly why I think Holmes could win the fight pending that he is able to survive the opening rounds of Liston's onslaught. Holmes could take him into the later rounds and dance circles around Sonny. However, I'm still firm in what I say. This fight could go either way. Holmes has been dropped before, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Holmes lose in the beginning as much as I believe he could also win that fight by decision.

 

Yes, Holmes was dropped before, but in all instances, it was by somebody with superior handspeed to Liston. (Shavers had long arms, and badly underrated handspeed. Still the knockdown rounds were the only rounds Snipes and Shavers won against Larry in the 32 combined completed rounds they boxed against him.) Like Cooney, Sonny didn't have the speed to reach Holmes enough to take him out