Sonny Liston vs. Larry Holmes

But don't you think Liston would actually be smart enough to work past his speed disadvantage and still land some possible KD bombs? Or would that turn into frustration like what happened against Ali?

 

I don't think so. As smart as Sonny was, I think Larry was smarter still. Unlike Frazier, Dempsey and Marciano, Liston was prone to frustration. Athough Sonny was dominant against Machen, he also seemed lost against an opponent who wasn't intimidated by him. (And Eddie got rough and nasty with Sonny at points in their 12 rounder, spinning him twice in one late clinch.)

I understand the reasons behind the Mallard nickname, but Larry also took on Roy Williams with one good hand and won (although candidly admitting that he didn't want to face Tiger anymore than the next chap). Holmes could be as rough and nasty as Liston. (Especially with his thumb. I wouldn't even want to spar with Larry unless thumbless gloves were used, no matter how old he got.)

Liston's jab could make him far more competitive against Holmes than Shavers, but he also did not cut the ring off as well as Foreman. While Liston had an excellent right, the hook was his real power shot, not particularly helpful against Holmes.

Concerning Liston's power, I think it's somewhat overrated. He was not somebody who could flatten an opponent of Larry's caliber with a single punch, even if he could reach him. For Sonny to win, he would most likely have to go the distance. Against a smart, well skilled, fast and mobile opposition, this could prove troublesome. (Henry Clark was fast, tall, and skilled, but also a bit green, and not particularly smart. Still, he was on his feet at the end, against a still competent veteran.)

 

You must remember that the Liston of the Clay fights was old and out of shape, totally different than the Liston Holmes would be facing. Plus Liston later attested to Clay's punching power by saying, "They say this kid can't punch? He can punch like hell!" Clay shots may have looked soft because of the speed in which he threw them, but they were not. They had a deceptively damaging quality to them.:good

 

Shavers handspeed was inferior to Listons. If Earnie could reach holmes, then so could Liston.

In his prime, Sonny Liston had pretty good handspeed and cut off the ring well. Please don't compare him to Gerry Cooney.

 

Well, it's true that Liston was somewhat undertrained and aging.

But let's not exaggerate. Only one year earlier he still looked immortal in destroying Patterson for the second time. He was only 3 pounds heavier than then.
And his speed has always been somewhat unimpressive to me. No doubt Ali has the punch to keep you honest, but so does Holmes. Holmes is no Clay but he's fast as hell too.

 

Liston was already past it in the Patterson fights. that was just a case of a bad-style matchup. Liston's prime was between 1957-60. Liston was 35 against Clay. That's over the hill.

 

Bill, what were you banned for?

 

Yeah,I think Willie Reddish could Slam that medicine ball harder into Liston than Arcel could into Holmes.Sonny could look very awesome in his workouts.

 

I'll take a pound of whatever it is you are smoking.

 

Holmes wins this one my opinion, I see Holmes frustrating Liston with his stellar jab and great footwork all night and eventually closing the show around the 8 round with a ko victory. All in all Liston takes a beating from a better boxer.

 

What shows of decline did you see in either Patterson fight? Could you point it out exactly?

By the way, during '57-'60 he didn't beat a single ranked contender so maybe he looked better because during the first half he was in prison and the second half he was beating up journeymen and washed up contenders.

 

His handspeed had diminished by the Patterson fight. Also Eddie Machen was ranked #2 when he fought Liston in 1960. I aos think Folley was ranked as well.:good

 

Oh, you are right. I was mistaken by '57-'59.