Sonny Liston vs. Larry Holmes

Liston wasnt ranked in the top ten till 1958,he came in at no 9,that year he beat Billy Hunter by ko in2,Hunter wasnt rated ,but would be no 6 the next year,Liston also kod Wayne Bethea in 1 that year ,he wasnt rated ,but had been no8 the previous year.In 59 Liston kod Mike Dejohn in 6,he was rated no 8, Nino Valdes was kod in 3 he had been no 2 the previous year and no 6 the year before that,listons other wins were over Cleveland Williams ko3 and Willie Besmanoff ko 7.In 1960 as the number 1 contender ,Liston again kod Williams in 2, Roy Harris in 1, Harris was unrated ,but had been no7 the year previous.Liston also decisioned Eddie Machen who was rated no3,kod Zora Folley in 3 ,he was rated no4,Dejohn whom Liston had kod in 6 the year previously was rated no6 in 1960.I dont know where you are going with your post ,but if ever a contender deserved a shot at the title it was LIston,he had cleared house ,when I say fighters are not rated ,I mean not in the top 10 at that time,most of them never left the top 20 rankings. Sonny may have been past his best,but what was left of it was certainly too much for the other contenders,he wasnt beating washed up fighters and journeymen ,he was koing rated fighters and doing it with ease.

 

:good

 

Where did i say he didn't deserve his title shot?

Like i said before, i mixed up the dates up to '59 instead of '60. DeJohn was the only contender he beat up to that point. There have been many people getting title shots based on beating up journeyman and washed up contenders, but up to that point i don't think he had THAT much ground for a titleshot. That came end '59 / early 60's when he started laying the ranked contenders out.

Patterson however was having a rightful trilogy with Johansson untill march '61. He took an easy defense after that and faced Liston right afterwards. Big deal. Liston was legitly avoided for little over a year. The way Bowe avoided Lewis is far, far worse. Same for Dempsey ducking Wills.

And then some people are claiming that he was totally past it and very very old, only a year after he twice destroyed the reigning champion inside of one round.

I have a poster of Clay/Liston and it lists Liston's age at 29. Of course, when he lost, his fans needed an excuse to live with the reality that he got the **** kicked out of him and made to quit by an at that time considered fragile, weak chinned loudmouth, and they started saying he was 35 or older!

 

So, you actually think he was 29?

 

Liston wasnt rated in the top10 till the end of1958,when he came in at no 9,that year he kod Billy hunter and Wayne Bethea,both top twenty heavies,Bethea had been no 8 the year previously and Hunter would be no6 the next year.Listons age is a mystery,but going into the fight with the then Cassius Clay,Sonny had had precisely 6 rounds of actual boxing in 4 years
1961 Howard King ko 3
Albert Westphal ko1
1962Floyd Patterson ko1
1963 Floyd Patterson ko1
Hardly adequate preparation to take on Muhammad Ali,even so Liston was competitive,he had trained for an easy blow out ,3 rounds at most ,but found himself out of gas ,getting a serious arse whipping. The fact that Liston hit so hard ,and koed nearly all his opponents early worked against him when he came up against Ali it meant that he lacked ring rounds ,and paid the penalty,I dont think he would have beaten Ali when in his prime but he would all most certainly have given him a better fight.

 

Most of the sources have him born in 1932 which would make him 32. Boxer-punchers age slow, 32 is hardly a killer, which you saw when he destroyed Patterson twice just before.

 

Fair post.

 

Holmes is a little too cagey and close to impossible to knock out at his best. Liston could very well drop Holmes and would definently give him tons of problems but Holmes pulls it out by close UD.

 

I Think Holmes Would Beat Him

 

This again is a fight I would love to see! Liston seems to be under rated on this board, while Holmes has his share that love/hate him. I have been thinking about this for about an hour now...and...

liston starts strong establishing the jab, while Larry seems a little tenative about Liston's power. By the third Larry is getting a little more comfortable at establishing his range especially on the jab. by the 5-6 rounds, Larry seems to have taken control of the fight and is dictating the tempo. In the 7th liston stuns Larry. Larry is not himself again to around the 9th and he finnishes strong taking 10-12....And the verdict Draw!!!! if it goes 15 I will lean towards Larry but I see a Draw or if i fall off the fence, I would take Holmes in a SD/MD type vote.

 

That's what his mother says, but many people said that he looked a lot older. I think he was born under a different name documented around 1929. Also he was among 25 children, so maybe his mom just didn't get around to registering him until later. These are some of the many stories surrounding Liston's age.

They do if they are inactive.:good

 

Holmes jabs him to death.

 

Liston could conceivably jab Holmes to death as well.

 

I'll stick with my pick... thanks

 

Indeed there are many stories.

But going into the second Williams fight, Liston was said to be 26 (1960), going into the Clay fight, he was said to be 29 (1964). It was only after he was humiliated, he all of a sudden was 35, etc....