Sonny Liston vs Marty Marshal - First fight

I don't have a problem with Sonny at all. He was a great fighter on his own. I just want to get to the bottom of this business about why some people think it is so necessary to use the unsubstantiated story about him laughing in order to get his jaw broken. This happened before he really became the Sonny Liston that beat all those good fighters like Machen and Patterson. As you say, as a novice Sonny got over a difficult hurdle.

 

He didn't "definitely" beat Sonny. It was a sd that could've gone either way.

Why are you using the term usually? Did Marty ever beat Liston again or even come close to it?

 

By your own admission, the reason you came to the forum was to sort out the overrating on behalf of Liston. Yet you wanna tell us you have no problem with him at all? Just stop Choklab we can all see through your bull****.

 

"McCarter rolled away from the right and, as Liston lunged forward, he chopped back with his own right hand. In a money match this would have made Liston cautious, but in training it made him mad. Shoving and bullying were, always, Liston's final resort." Sounds like Ali's "Phantom Punch" in Fight #2.

 

This guy even lies to himself!

 

I don't have a problem with Sonny the boxer. He was the best in the world. Hands down a great fighter in his time.

I have a problem with some of the hype around him that doesn't stand up. I can at least differentiate between Sonny the great fighter that we know about and separate that from the hype around him.

I am talking of Hype that really would be questioned of other fighters. Take this business of laughing during a fight. Stone faced Sonny Liston. Laughing in a fight?

This is stuff that nobody knows about like how old he was.

And there is this need to believe that -even before he was in his prime- Sonny did not have competitive fights with guys 24 pounds lighter than he was.

There is nothing wrong with great fighters not being so great before they made their prime. Dempsey for instance. Marciano for instance. It's okay. But Sonny, why is it he has to be laughing to lose a fight? I just don't understand this stuff.

 

In his 8th fight he lost a split decision to a guy having his 26th bout,having had his jaw broken halfway through the fight ,that's the bottom line . Who gives a f*ck how it occurred? Only you.

 

I never said there was anything wrong in a golden gloves winner losing a split decision to a 24 pound lighter guy on his 8th pro fight. I already said it's okay to lose before a fighter becomes great. Many fighters did. Floyd Patterson did. Joe Louis did. It is not unusaual. What is unusual is promoting the unsubstantiated laughing into a broken jaw story. .

 

swagdelfadeel for one.

 

No one is promoting anything here except you ,promoting your anti Liston agenda with little snipes like," 24lbs lighter".

 

Swag has got you taped,and so have I and McGrain.

 

I also thought that. It's interesting that these tid bits of information were doing the rounds just prior to the first Clay fight. What a fascinating article it is.

 

And I have got you taped. For irrationally leaping to the defence of Sonny Liston When I produced the Marty Marshall fight report on a Marty Marshall thread? You are blaming me for the things in that article that should be fascinating to any Sonny Liston fan? Is that normal?

Swag has me taped? How will I sleep! That guy thinks repeating the unsubstantiated laughter/screaming/dog barking story actually authenticates it. Now that's authenticly more laughable than the story itself.

I debate with Mgrain. On occasion he has been unnecessarily suspicious of my views when They go against popular opinion. But Nothing too irrational there. Even he's okay with that.

Mr Mcvey, I am to be concerned that you, someone who has been "booted" off here so often that you probably have a permanent footprint on your rear end, has me tapped? This is hysterical. Have a good day sir.

 

When you put it like that it's not unusual.

Unlike most excuses however, this particular one is about something that presumably happened in the ring (dog barking and screaming to induce laughter) something that could have been reported at the time. I don't think it was. Unlike most excuses it is rarely challenged. Durans toilet trouble, Benns haircut etc have all been ridiculed almost to boredom.

not so the drama of the first Marshall v Liston fight.

I don't think it detracts from Sonny anyway because this all happened in The inconsequential first part of Sonnys career. he went to prison soon after his third fight with Marshall. Ultimately Its what he became after prison that counts.

Sonnys first career was so inconsequential that no excuse was even needed. Unless told otherwise, I shall think The excuses came later once Sonny came to prominence in his second career when an explanation was required for Marty Marshal. It must have been decided that was easier to say something like that rather than just explain it was a learning fight when he was unknown novice.