Sonny Liston vs Marty Marshal - First fight

Why don't you make a post telling us how George Foreman's early fights were all crap mismatches? We must be due one, you haven't mentioned it for a while!

 

Not all of them. Mostly the ones in 1972 just prior to meeting Frazier. But you already know that. I get the feeling it has sunk in now.

 

If you repeat a lie often enough.














It is still a lie.

 

Here's one of your early Liston bashing posts.
"There are also not that many champions who could not have scored wins over the same men Liston beat.

Frazier beat better fighters. Peak Frazier pre TFOTC deserves 50-50 chance at worst against any all time champ. Forget the guy Foreman beat, that was not the best joe frazier and sonny liston was not george foreman.

Prime Frazier with good eyes and better feet would beat Liston to the draw. joe was so accurate and landed power shots more regularly than most. Frazier was stronger and hit harder than anyone Liston beat."

Frazier hit harder than Cleveland Williams.Mike De John , Nino Valdes? Frazier was stronger than Williams,King, Valdes,DeJohn? How do you know this?

 

what is it you think is a lie this time? If you think it is a lie that The guys Foreman fought immediately before Frazier were not dangerous mismatches then I don't know what to say. I think one of his 1972 guys had just One win and had been knocked out each of the 13 times he lost.

You need to stop thinking the stuff you don't like is a lie. It happened.

 

Because Frazier (in his prime) knocked out better fighters than they ever did. Frazier was the better puncher. I don't know what you don't understand here.

Why is it do you think that Valdez, Dejohn and Williams did not knockout or stop better guys than they did?

 

You need to stop trying to tell me what to do.Get back on your soapbox .

 

Let's get this straight, you think it is "Liston bashing" if I think a prime Joe Frazier would beat Sonny?

Until the 1980s Frazier was Usually making top ten ATG lists ahead of Liston. It was not an unpopular stance.

 

Joe Frazier kod two men of class Ex light heavy Doug Jones and Light heavy Bob Foster.Now you've once again been deceitful here ,because you have changed the wording of what you originally wrote,which is the following

"Frazier was stronger and hit harder than anyone Liston beat"

You've now diluted that to" Frazier was the better puncher,"meanwhile avoiding answering my 2 questions.

1.QHow do you know Frazier hit harder than Williams ,& DeJohn?
2.Q How do you know Frazier was stronger than Williams,DeJohn,& Carter?

 

because he was the better puncher. Hardest punch is always the best punch that gets the target.

In a boxing sense Frazier was a stronger proposition than they ever were. I don't know what you want from me here, which one can lift the heaviest barbell in a leotard? I'm not sure that's anything to do with boxing. In a boxing sense only Foreman looked physically stronger than Frazier. That's the only time.

As for Dejohn etc, I don't feel there is evidence that Frazier would not tear through the lot of them with the gloves on.

Do you seriously think Dejohn and co beat Frazier???

 

No, I think you are making unsupported claims when you say Frazier hit harder than anyone Liston ever met .I'd say both Williams and DeJohn hit harder with single punches than Frazier and you have no way of knowing that Frazier was stronger than anyone Liston ever faced in other words it's just more bullsh*t designed to denigrate Liston.
Got that straight?

 

I want you to make honest posts and you don't ,you slant them ,and,when you are caught out doing it you plead innocence.The questions were .1.Does Frazier hit harder than Williams and DeJohn?2.How do you know he was stronger than Williams,DeJohn and King? and you still haven't answered them. You just slide around the questions making little qualifications in a blatant attempt to justify your statements, and you've been doing it as long as I've posted here.

 

The answer in my opinion is yes frazier hit harder. It is obvious. Yes I think Frazier was stronger too. Frazier steam rolls right over those guys. why not? Valdez was bounced all over the ring by Machen. Williams? He was laid out flat by Ali.

 

I have an opinion that Frazier was stronger. So what? How on earth is it "Liston bashing" to have an opinion that Frazier was stronger than the guys Liston walked through?

I think Frazier walks through them too. just as Sonny did.

What's wrong with that? Frazier walked down Big ol' Buster Mathis for christs sakes. Why can't he run over Howard darn King?