Sonny Liston vs Mike Tyson Overall

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Dance84, Feb 12, 2020.

who would win

  1. Liston By Knockout

  2. Liston By Decision

  3. Tyson By Knockout

  4. Tyson By Decision

  5. Draw

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wow, this is chock full of inaccuracies. Mike Tyson most certainly did quit against Holyfield 2, though to his credit it was the only time he did that. Mike proved his heart in taking awful beatings against Douglas, Holy I, and Lewis and kept coming.

    The only fighters Mike fought on Liston's level were Holyfield and Lewis and...well, gee he didn't do very good. Some would bring up a five-years-past-his-prime, two year ring rusty, just-turned grandfather Larry Holmes, but even Mike himself admitted he didn't fight the Great Holmes.

    Guys like Berbick, Williams, Biggs, Selden, Bruno, etc. would have been murdered by Liston.

    Floyd Patterson was indeed a more than good fighter: a two-time undisputed heavyweight champion.

    Sorry, son, but your argument here sounds like somebody whose knowledge of boxing begins and ends with Mike Tyson...and even that isn't exactly objective.

    Mike was a terrific fighter in the 80s, and probably a top 10 ATG. But the guy you're describing is somebody else.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
  2. Rakesh

    Rakesh Member Full Member

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    You said it yourself, they were mere "journeymen or contenders". Cleveland Williams alone would not be a "sweep" for Tysons opposition. Liston was not the same as Micheal Spinks, he had a 86 inch reach which Tyson has NEVER dealt with such as before. The physical attributes Sonny had were much better used then Tysons 6'4 donnies who just were bigger then Tyson and had no knowledge on distance and range finding like Liston. To be clear I love Tyson, personally one of my favorite entertaining boxers of all time but this is non sense.
     
  3. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I myself was very anti-Iron Mike when I first got here, and was righteously schooled by knowledgeable members. I held his **** conviction very much against him, to the point that I couldn't separate that from the fighter, or the man.

    As time has passed I have come to like Mike and have great admiration for him as a fighter.

    But there are people who would have beat him prime for prime, and there are at least half a dozen men above him at ATG. I try to temper my admiration with my own, admittedly modest, knowledge.
     
  4. Rakesh

    Rakesh Member Full Member

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    I agree 100%, I do think Tyson is innocent from the **** case as he still to this day goes against the claim (but then again who knows). I loved Tyson from a very young age but his reputation unfortunately dwindled for a bit as I had to make disputes against him for years online.
     
  5. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    What adversity has Liston overcome that Tyson hasn't?...or couldn't?
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
  6. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Only thing I can come up with is Liston having his jaw broken but finishing the fight to a SD loss. As you know, that shows a lot of heart and courage.

    But then, Mike certainly showed his heart against Douglas, Holyfield, and Lewis.
     
  7. MarkusFlorez99

    MarkusFlorez99 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

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    As i said I'm picking Mike Tyson. Liston just like Mike Tyson is overrated. But half of Liston's opponents were in the light heavyweight-cruiserweight range and a good portion of the heavyweights he fought were tiny heavyweights anyway. People just gloss over this. Floyd Patterson is not Mike Tyson. Floyd Patterson and Mike Tyson have a 25 pound difference and Tyson utilized the peakaboo style differently, in a more agressive, complex, and destructive way. Yes Liston would beat him on the inside but Tyson had a far better chin than Patterson and could beat Liston to the punch or counter Liston and blitz him after slipping a jab or a left hook at mid range. He would more than likely get to Liston eventually by having success slipping that stiff jab and would set up lightning quick shots at mid-close range that would take Liston out.

    Had Tyson fought Listons opponents bar Ali he would have annihilated the lot of them inside 1 round and KO'd the rest of them inside 4.

    People are going to call me crazy, whatever. I call it how i see it

    Tyson beats him and i am not a Tyson fan
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
  8. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Indeed it does, Rules, It would be a no-brainer argument if Sonny had fought through the pain barrier and continued with his bad shoulder in the first Ali fight but he didn't. It is possible to fight on with a bad shoulder. Danny Williams fought on with a dislocated shoulder that was so bad his arm hung by his side against Mark Porter. And he kayoed Porter.

    Obviously a world of difference in level of opposition but Sonny was defending his world championship belt against a green 22 year old who had almost been knocked out by Henry Cooper in his previous fight. He wasn't up against an ATG at that point.

    As an aside, Danny Williams often gets derided by Tyson naysayers as a 'bum'. Next time I see that comment made, I shall add the clip of him and his shoulder. He was no mega talent but he wasn't a 'bum' by any stretch.

    Not having a go at you, btw, as you are invariably a pleasant poster. Fair play to you for having the grace to accept that you have had opinions changed over time, too. I had to do likewise recently in the Moorer v Yacqui Lopez thread. It's what happens when the forum works well and someone presents an opinion you hadn't considered and backs it with facts and/or reasoning. Sadly there are too may obnoxious keyboard warriors on it now, it's hard to learn or exchange opinions without a load of bile coming back at you. Luckily, most of it is so poorly written, I can't work out what is meant by it or even who it refers to.
     
  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Thanks so much for your kind words, Eddie.

    I tend to just not care about the keyboard warriors here, and appreciate the people who really do have good knowledge, you included.
     
  10. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Cheers Rules. Good to be appreciated. Likewise, I very much enjoy your posts which offer a rare balance, without the prejudice toward old school vs modern. You seem to have an open mind and judge fighters, eras, fights by their own merits which is great. And quite a personal back story to boot, it seems.
     
  11. Claw4075

    Claw4075 Ezzard Charles GOAT Full Member

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    Liston didn't have a 86 inch reach, it was an exaggeration to promote the Liston-Ali fights
     
  12. Claw4075

    Claw4075 Ezzard Charles GOAT Full Member

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    I'll agree with some of the things you've said in here except that Holyfield and Lewis were on Liston's level. Those two were basically better than Liston in everything you can imagine; resume, quality of opposition, overall skillset, etc. The same ring rusty Holmes went the distance with Holyfield later on. Berbick, Biggs, Seldon and Bruno will not get murdered by Liston. They'll go the distance even if they lose.

    Patterson was a light heavyweight coming in the fight, while Liston himself weighed above 200lbs.

    And no, my knowledge of boxing doesn't begin or end with Mike Tyson. I only type in unbiased facts.


    Absolutely 100 percent agree with this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2021
    Sangria likes this.
  13. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Patterson had arguably the fastest hands of all time in combinations at HW. Claiming Liston would lose due to the hand speed difference is a very flawed argument.
     
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  14. Barrf

    Barrf New Member Full Member

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    He wasn't rusty by that fight. He'd just had a six fight winning streak, with the one prior to Holyfield being Mercer.
     
  15. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

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    Holmes was 4 years older and fatter against those stiffs he fought. How did that make him better? The only reason he fought said stiffs was because he copied the George Foreman route in getting a title shot.

    Ray Mercer wasn't a stiff but Italian pastry pig Francesco Damiani was toying with him for 9 rounds before getting caught with a solid shot to the nose bone. That's why Holmes handpicked Mercer: he knew Mercer wasn't as good as the 80's heavies he faced throughout his career.

    Also, who were the fighters that gave Mercer the most problems? The 80's retreads. Guys like Damiani, old Holmes, shopworn Jesse Ferguson and even older Tim Witherspoon.

    And no way in hell does Holmes come in unprepared against someone like Mike Tyson. If he didn't feel comfortable to fight, he wouldn't have fought.

    Holmes has said in 1990 during the start of his comeback that he would never want to face Tyson again. Face Holyfield? No problem. But not Mike Tyson. Ever. That should tell you something.