Sonny Liston vs Mike Tyson,who wins?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by catasyou, Oct 31, 2008.

  1. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    38,466
    Likes Received:
    21
    Who would have won between these 2 great warriors?:bbb
     
  2. COLD-HARD-TRUTH

    COLD-HARD-TRUTH Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2008
    Messages:
    2,566
    Likes Received:
    8
    Prime Tyson, with his speed wins the fight
     
  3. Quickhands21

    Quickhands21 Well-Known Member Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,084
    Likes Received:
    10
    I dunno..Sonnys jab was lethal..It looked almost fake,i could see it giving mike problems.
     
  4. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    38,466
    Likes Received:
    21
    That's what I yhink also,the speed would be a big difference,and this probably by early rounds KO but you can never know with Sonny working that wonderful jab on Mike's noggin
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    112,736
    Likes Received:
    47,527
    Liston wins this one, and I think he's the toughest match in history for Tyson. Liston has literally no difficulty with men coming to him and struggles horribly with speed going away from him (but you all know that).

    The reason Tyson struggles on occasion with men coming to him (Bonecrusher Smith, Evander Hollyfield) is that he is a one-range fighter - a devastating one, but a one range fighter. He is a mid-range fighter of the highest class and a "bulling" fighter - coming from long to middle range - of very high standard. Now.

    Here he is up against a fighter who is literally as adept at nearly all the ranges involved in a fight as he is at the others - that is to say, he does not have a preference at which range the fight is fought. This is due to his underated athleticism and his physical/technical tools in addition to "yeah?" attitude I haven't seen fully explored anywhere in literature or on the forums.

    Liston is also a vastly underated ring general. He has made many adjustments in various fights (maybe most impressively in Williams II where he shifts to the front foot in the very first round having constructed a fight plan based on the first fight which differed) to his opponents detriment.

    Add all this up and you have battleground that favours Liston. Tyson will come directly to Liston and try to hammer him. My guess is that Liston would spear him with the jab. Yes, Tyson has extraordinary head movement, and yes it is overated. Tyson did not use arbitrary head movement like Jack Dempsey did. Tyson moved in a pattern. In other words, a fighter with a very accurate jab who also had no fear - at all - of the man in the opposite corner could time him. Sonny could time him, Sonny has those things.

    His jab was quite slow, I admit. But i've always felt a fast jab was an over-rated commodity generally. From a technically classical stance - which Liston employed - it's a punch that does not take long to get across. I think that an accurate, hard jab, is a better punch than a fast jab which is accurate.

    So I see Liston timing Tyson on the way in with the jab and missing with his bigger punches in the first few rounds, but closing the distance with a clatter at the back of that punch. Tyson's best work smothered whilst Liston builds a lead.

    A word about punch resistance - I think they have similair resistance to punishment, although Liston was basically impossible to hurt to the body. But I don't think Tyson has that "tide-turning" type of chin. I think that he takes punishment, but the hurt causes his head to drop. We saw it against Hollyfield and Lewis, and to a lesser degree against Douglas. Liston was capable of turning the tide after being hurt, and we saw this agianst Williams, who "hit him so hard all over [my] body" that Sonny became convinced he "didn't have a weak spot", and he went on to KO Williams in 3.

    If Tyson slows he will be stopped. If Tyson manages to keep the pace high, he'll lose a wide decision.

    Bad match up for Mike.
     
  6. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    27,199
    Likes Received:
    93
    I personally think Liston's jab, while among the best in HW history, was too slow to land consistently on Tyson, who had some of the best head movement in history in his short peak. I also think with Tyson's edge in speed in close, he'd be able to weave his way inside and load up on leverage shots quicker, allowing him to get off first most of the time, and Liston was no defensive wizard, though he'd be able to do his share of damage if Mike were to stay in close quarters.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    112,736
    Likes Received:
    47,527
    You mean Tyson gets in past the jab when Liston throws it? Because Liston had good timing and was very accurte. He could also jab beautifully going away.
     
  8. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    38,466
    Likes Received:
    21
    Great work,you kinda convinced me.And yes,very badstyle matc-up for Mike.When you say distance,you mean 15 rounds?I was thinkinh in a 12 round fight?
     
  9. Undisputed P4P

    Undisputed P4P esb FBL & FIFA 12 champ Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2008
    Messages:
    3,368
    Likes Received:
    1
    a fight that i dare not to predict a winner, so ive gone for a draw, it would have been a war.
     
  10. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    38,466
    Likes Received:
    21
    Fair enough,this would have been a wa for the world.I'd wish that guy that made the avatars would make a nicce poster of this.This would last the test of time and go down in history.:good
     
  11. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    27,199
    Likes Received:
    93
    I think Tyson was just too active and skilled with the bob and weave to be caught often by any jabber, as it was the punch he was designed to beat early on. And while Liston had a clubbing jab, I just don't think it had the speed or snap on it to land cleanly often. With Mike's speed advantage I see him being able to weave his way in off the jab, allowing him the advantage of being in perfect position to throw hooks with leverage once inside. As long as he didn't **** about and test his luck inside against a man of Liston's strength and power, he'd do very well because of his speed advantage in particular.
     
  12. olyalex

    olyalex Manos de piedra Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,387
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think Tyson.
     
  13. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    38,466
    Likes Received:
    21
    I'd say Sonny's jab had snap but no speed tough
     
  14. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Messages:
    27,199
    Likes Received:
    93
    By snap I mean the ability to pop it off quickly. Liston's jab was more like a club attached to his long arm that he'd shoot at you in a straight line.
     
  15. catasyou

    catasyou Lucian Bute Full Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    38,466
    Likes Received:
    21
    Then yes,I'd have to agree