Sonny Liston vs Moore, Pastrano, Torres ,Foster, tiger, Johnson

Period ending 15th August 1961

National Boxing Association


Champion Floyd Patterson

1. Henry Cooper
2. Ingemar Johansson
3. Eddie Machen
4. Alejandro Lavorante
5. Cleveland Williams
6. George Chuvalo
7. Bobby Cleroux
8. Zorra Folley
9. Mike DeJohn
10. D1ck Richardson.

 

Okay. Thank you. I never realized he was #1 by anybody, but it helps that Liston isn't being rated. Liston is why I couldn't imagine when Cooper was #1.

**This really shows the limitations of ratings, with 10 men, four of whom he had beaten, rated ahead of Sonny Liston.

 

Thanks for the apology.

Liston was dropped that month for being banned in Pennsylvania.

Yes Folley revenged Cooper but all it really showed was one guy whom was already found out at elite level could beat a guy he already lost to. Folley would lose to Lavotante and Jones. Machen would lose to Johnson, Folley and was destroyed by Ingo. It's just like Pastrano beating London then losing to him. Holman beating Charles then losing to him. These top contenders are prone to "one step forward two steps back" syndrome if they fight often enough.

 

Liston was dropped because of his ban in Pennsylvania. In boxing illustrated ratings that same month Sonny was still #1 and Cooper #5.

 

Curiously, as you seem to know.

What were the Boxing Illustrated ratings?

 

What exactly is the point you are making?

Patterson fought McNeeley, an unworthy contender, on December 4.

Cooper and Folley fought on December 5.

If Patterson defended against his number one contender, he would have defended against Cooper. Folley was only rated 8th.

If you see the Cooper-Folley fight as an elimination fight, then you must think Patterson should have defended against Folley rather than Liston in 1962?

 

He beat moore who was above him. But by the time he got his shot two yrs later the ratings had shuffled and he had beaten people abive him. Ring ratings are unofficial and imperfect anyway.

 

Doug Jones knocked out Folley and took Folley's place, and then Ali beat Jones.

 

That seems like double talk to me. You say that the winner of the elimination should have gotten a title shot but that liston deserved it. If Liston, who did get the title shot, deserved it then neither Folley nor Cooper did. The only way Folley got his #1 rating (which lasted about 1 month) was because Liston got bumped for getting arrested after trying to assault that woman.

 

"what's with that fight being called an eliminator"

By NBA and/or BBoBC politicians. Don't forget the WBA later managed to anoint Terrell as the champion over Ali.