Sonny Liston vs Oleksandr Usyk

I don't know how I missed this but excellent post! I agree Joshua isn't great at all, though I do give him credit for coming back from a brutal KO to regain his titles. Not many would've been able to do that.

Much as Wilder is bashed on here, I think he's a much better fighter than Joshua.

 

Because that is the only basis to go off, Liston never showed strength against anyone Usyk’s size, so there is hardly any proof for either side here, it’s not like Liston bullied men Usyks’s size, + crusierweights these days do get in the ring at like 215lbs with these dehydrations and rehydrations, so these crusierweights Usyk fought were actually about the same size as Liston when they were rehydrated
There is no evidence for Liston being stronger, Foreman may have said he’s the only man to back him up, first off, you take what Foreman says with a punch of salt, secondly heavyweights weren’t as big back then anyway, so Foreman didn’t share the ring with many heavyweights bigger than Liston
Regardless of what anyone said, they didn’t share a ring with both to actually compare, and secondly there’s no footage to suggest he was definitely stronger, the men Liston bullied, Usyk would be able to as well, most of them were smaller than the crusierweights of today, I’m not claiming 1 to be stronger than the other, I’m saying there’s no concrete evidence to suggest a case for either side
+ Regardless if Usyk was weaker physically than Liston, I’d still be picking Usyk to win, I personally believe they would’ve been very similar strength wise, size is definitely a good measure of who is stronger out of 2 people, especially when it’s natural size, which Usyk is naturally 220lbs when hydrated

 

Usyk would beat Sonny Liston medium difficulty, almost like Ali did, but a some people aren't going to want to hear that

 

I know, right? Excellent post by the Flashman.

 

Is Usyk now being framed as being as good as the lightning fast and insanely flexible/mobile Miami Ali?

Usyk’s very good but he certainly hasn’t proven himself to be that good.

As was the case when Jones beat Ruiz, the extrapolations are highly disproportional to the source achievement(s).

Boxing might need a new hero but often they are invented, by fans and pundits alike, well before the established fact.

These days, fighters are often talked up well beyond what they’ve materially upheld.

See Canelo vs Bivol, even the judges couldn’t snap their brains out of the fact that Alvarez fell well short of the heady and unrealistic projections afforded to him.

Difficult to let go of a dream. Let’s see how Usyk goes in his next fight….whenever that will be.

 

Its apples to apples, regardless of what you say. Liston's best wins were mostly under 200, and he had nothing to compare with Joshua over 200. Usyk could be 90 and would not have his jaw broken by a 180 pound man, or lose to a blown-up middle.

 

Usyk won a. world title in his 10th pro fight.

 

Thank you. The fact that you have to use a boxer who won a world title earlier in his career than anyone else makes the point better than anything I could say.

 

What the...I am saying that Usyk is better than Liston. Liston had his jaw broken in his seventh fight, Usyk won a world title in his tenth.

Not hard to understand, even for you.

 

This is probably the worst logic I've ever seen on this board. Legitimately don't even know how to respond to this.

Pretty ironic considering you failed to comprehend what I was saying in my last post.

 

No, you are just to dumb to understand.

 

None of this is true at all. I'm convinced you don't even watch these fighters you talk about, and I'm done educating you.

 

Pretty rich coming from the guy that doesn't know the difference between to and too (which is the world you're looking for).

 

I've written novels, dumbass. Typo.

 

But Catch, it’s been upheld not only by me but even better by others that your comparisons are not apples to apples.

It’s been illustrated that 1) Joshua isn’t the quality fighter you believe him to be and 2) Joshua was an already well beaten fighter and very much damaged goods anyway the time Usyk fought him.

Referencing a result (Martin KO loss) that occurred well beyond Liston’s prime is obviously inappropriate. Usually that’s sufficient explanation and closure on that bone of contention.

But you don’t accept that - so the obvious has been broken down even further to make it clear.

Liston’s alcohol and substance abuse issues have already been cited also but you’ve ignored those.

When he fought Martin, Liston also had more than double the fights that Usyk has had to date, Usyk’s assessable performances are up to age 34, as at his last fight. Like I said, let’s see what he actually does next….in lieu of heavy projections of what he could do and what would never happen to him.

You cannot say a Leotis Martin-like scenario would NEVER happen to Usyk at the same age as Sonny - he’s still 5 years shy of 40 with 20+ less fights than the Liston who faced Martin - and until Martin turned the trick vs Sonny, people would’ve guessed it equally unlikely that Sonny would fall as he did - that’s what age can do - compounded by substance abuse.

The broken jaw thing carries little to no weight - it actually makes no sense.

Anyone can cop a broken jaw notwithstanding their performance or the power of punch in question. If that was the case, Ali’s jaw would’ve been smashed into tiny pieces by Shavers.

Yet years prior, Norton turned the trick on Ali - but over their next 2 fights with plenty of shots landed by Ken, the feat wasn’t replicated.

Let’s see Usyk actually fatten up his HW resume with manifest performances rather than springboard him into orbit based on just two wins in the division and his relatively limited career in terms of number of fights otherwise.