Sonny Liston vs Oleksandr Usyk

I've written novels, dumbass. Typo.

 

But Catch, it’s been upheld not only by me but even better by others that your comparisons are not apples to apples.

It’s been illustrated that 1) Joshua isn’t the quality fighter you believe him to be and 2) Joshua was an already well beaten fighter and very much damaged goods anyway the time Usyk fought him.

Referencing a result (Martin KO loss) that occurred well beyond Liston’s prime is obviously inappropriate. Usually that’s sufficient explanation and closure on that bone of contention.

But you don’t accept that - so the obvious has been broken down even further to make it clear.

Liston’s alcohol and substance abuse issues have already been cited also but you’ve ignored those.

When he fought Martin, Liston also had more than double the fights that Usyk has had to date, Usyk’s assessable performances are up to age 34, as at his last fight. Like I said, let’s see what he actually does next….in lieu of heavy projections of what he could do and what would never happen to him.

You cannot say a Leotis Martin-like scenario would NEVER happen to Usyk at the same age as Sonny - he’s still 5 years shy of 40 with 20+ less fights than the Liston who faced Martin - and until Martin turned the trick vs Sonny, people would’ve guessed it equally unlikely that Sonny would fall as he did - that’s what age can do - compounded by substance abuse.

The broken jaw thing carries little to no weight - it actually makes no sense.

Anyone can cop a broken jaw notwithstanding their performance or the power of punch in question. If that was the case, Ali’s jaw would’ve been smashed into tiny pieces by Shavers.

Yet years prior, Norton turned the trick on Ali - but over their next 2 fights with plenty of shots landed by Ken, the feat wasn’t replicated.

Let’s see Usyk actually fatten up his HW resume with manifest performances rather than springboard him into orbit based on just two wins in the division and his relatively limited career in terms of number of fights otherwise.

 

Why ramble on? They are apples to apples. Liston's best wins are against guys under 200 pounds. The best win either has of a guy over is Uysk's win over Joshua.

NOTHING is going to change this. The size of Usyk's opponents is comparable to the size of Liston's, and Usyk beat the best big man of the bunch.

NOTHING will change this.

 

Usyk the new H2H ESB Heayweight G.O.A.T.

 

That is a fair point.
Then the question becomes quality of competition, & besides Patterson being better who Liston destroyed twice, their opponents may be comparable.
You can also cite usyk's great amateur experience. He is an elite fighter.
However amateur does not show what he can do against the rule set & experience of pros.
Anyway he is a great fighter.

But Pugguy is right that a broken jaw means nothing.
Do you know that occasionally healthy men/usually young Fathers have had their jaws broken by an errant shot/kick of an infant?
They were not usually calcium deprived chinless wonders.
If you are hit just right your jaw may break.
Laughing with an open mouth at your bizarrely behaving competitor's antics & being hit perfectly provided that opportunity.

I believe that some fighters like Joshua are elite in part due to coasting on size & strength.
Liston was a better more natural fighter, a slugger who could box too.
The question is how much does size & fight tech training compensate for less fighting instinct or skills?
It may tend to balance out. Assuming a guy has adequate talent, or an unusual equalizer like Wilder.

Usyk would be a worthy opponent for Liston, & maybe most anyone.
Here is a well written, evocative article about Liston from the archives: [url]https://www.boxing247.com/weblog/archives/120412[/url]

 

Liston fought quite a few fighters Usyk's size. Fighters like Williams, Valdes, DeJohn and Clark were all the same size as Usyk. Ali was marginally lighter, but basically the same. He also faced few fighters bigger than Usyk.

Did he prove his strength against them? I don't know, but I think we can find some evidences of his physical strength, or lack or it based on these fights. Usyk isn't a giant.

 

LOL, there’s no rambling from my end.

I’ve addressed your “comparisons” and highlighted the non comparable features of same that you have glaringly sidestepped/omitted and still refuse to acknowledge.

It seems you’re simply bypassing critical thinking and resorting to necessary, self affirming mantras, as non applicable as they are to your argument - “apples to apples, nothing will change this….”

I might as well throw in “Ashes to ashes, fungi to fungi, we know Major Tom’s a junkie…” for equal and opposite value. Love that song. Anyway…..

Next thread, Ali vs Usyk. Well, too easy, Ali was KD’d by diminutive, 188 lb Cooper, had his jaw broken vs Norton, and was beaten by a wringing wet 201 lb fighter in just his 8th pro fight. Therefore Usyk will (must) destroy him. Usyk’s a fine fighter but you’re approximating him to the abilities of a Marvel or DC comic character. Hehe.

True, nothing will change your thinking when your mind is thusly closed and your analogies are so out of whack. Cherry picking is the order of the day, devoid of full context.

And the longer it is until Usyk’s next actual fight to materially uphold himself - so his legend will exponentially grow…by way of over excited online analysis’ and projections.

 

LOL, I know, riveting stuff. Spare us some popcorn will ya?

 

Usyk?

Ya, Usyk’s fully sick Bro! Not quite Ingemar Johansson fully sick but very much in the same vomitus, barf zone.

I love Ukrainians but forever and always, Nords RULE!

 

He wouldn't beat TUAminator.

 

Hmmmmm that would be an interesting poll nowadays LOL

Suddenly Usyk mightn't be big enough or strong enough.

 

Liston is one of my favorite boxers and top 5 H2H at HW. But I feel this matchup is bad for him. Slick fast boxers will always cause a problem for Liston.
I lean towards a Usik win on points.

 

Ok now I’m a lot more confident in a Liston victory.