Sonny Liston vs Oleksandr Usyk

Why ramble on? They are apples to apples. Liston's best wins are against guys under 200 pounds. The best win either has of a guy over is Uysk's win over Joshua.

NOTHING is going to change this. The size of Usyk's opponents is comparable to the size of Liston's, and Usyk beat the best big man of the bunch.

NOTHING will change this.

 

Usyk the new H2H ESB Heayweight G.O.A.T.

 

That is a fair point.
Then the question becomes quality of competition, & besides Patterson being better who Liston destroyed twice, their opponents may be comparable.
You can also cite usyk's great amateur experience. He is an elite fighter.
However amateur does not show what he can do against the rule set & experience of pros.
Anyway he is a great fighter.

But Pugguy is right that a broken jaw means nothing.
Do you know that occasionally healthy men/usually young Fathers have had their jaws broken by an errant shot/kick of an infant?
They were not usually calcium deprived chinless wonders.
If you are hit just right your jaw may break.
Laughing with an open mouth at your bizarrely behaving competitor's antics & being hit perfectly provided that opportunity.

I believe that some fighters like Joshua are elite in part due to coasting on size & strength.
Liston was a better more natural fighter, a slugger who could box too.
The question is how much does size & fight tech training compensate for less fighting instinct or skills?
It may tend to balance out. Assuming a guy has adequate talent, or an unusual equalizer like Wilder.

Usyk would be a worthy opponent for Liston, & maybe most anyone.
Here is a well written, evocative article about Liston from the archives: [url]https://www.boxing247.com/weblog/archives/120412[/url]

 

Liston fought quite a few fighters Usyk's size. Fighters like Williams, Valdes, DeJohn and Clark were all the same size as Usyk. Ali was marginally lighter, but basically the same. He also faced few fighters bigger than Usyk.

Did he prove his strength against them? I don't know, but I think we can find some evidences of his physical strength, or lack or it based on these fights. Usyk isn't a giant.

 

LOL, there’s no rambling from my end.

I’ve addressed your “comparisons” and highlighted the non comparable features of same that you have glaringly sidestepped/omitted and still refuse to acknowledge.

It seems you’re simply bypassing critical thinking and resorting to necessary, self affirming mantras, as non applicable as they are to your argument - “apples to apples, nothing will change this….”

I might as well throw in “Ashes to ashes, fungi to fungi, we know Major Tom’s a junkie…” for equal and opposite value. Love that song. Anyway…..

Next thread, Ali vs Usyk. Well, too easy, Ali was KD’d by diminutive, 188 lb Cooper, had his jaw broken vs Norton, and was beaten by a wringing wet 201 lb fighter in just his 8th pro fight. Therefore Usyk will (must) destroy him. Usyk’s a fine fighter but you’re approximating him to the abilities of a Marvel or DC comic character. Hehe.

True, nothing will change your thinking when your mind is thusly closed and your analogies are so out of whack. Cherry picking is the order of the day, devoid of full context.

And the longer it is until Usyk’s next actual fight to materially uphold himself - so his legend will exponentially grow…by way of over excited online analysis’ and projections.

 

LOL, I know, riveting stuff. Spare us some popcorn will ya?

 

Usyk?

Ya, Usyk’s fully sick Bro! Not quite Ingemar Johansson fully sick but very much in the same vomitus, barf zone.

I love Ukrainians but forever and always, Nords RULE!

 

He wouldn't beat TUAminator.

 

Hmmmmm that would be an interesting poll nowadays LOL

Suddenly Usyk mightn't be big enough or strong enough.

 

Liston is one of my favorite boxers and top 5 H2H at HW. But I feel this matchup is bad for him. Slick fast boxers will always cause a problem for Liston.
I lean towards a Usik win on points.

 

Ok now I’m a lot more confident in a Liston victory.

 

You are speaking gibberish.I never said Use will destroy them (He would destroy Liston), I said that his oppentes are comparable, and these great fights were beaten and hurt by men of lesser weights.

All of this is objectively true, and you are rambling nonsense to deny it.

 

I don’t believe fighters in them days would be bigger now with nutrition, they may have been fitter with nutrition, but weight comes from how many calories you eat in comparison to how many you burn off, you eat more than you burn off, you gain weight, you eat less than you burn off, you lose weight, so he would be the same, because he would have ate the same as he burnt off in training which maintains, but they would be fitter and healthier these days