Sonny Liston vs Ridddick Bowe

I hope you don't say that about Joe Louis...

Joe Louis would kill Bowe.

 

What makes Sonny an elite HW? Trashing Glass-Hopper Floyd Patterson twice, who was shalf the size of Golota?
Aside from Holyfield? What got Sonny aside from Glass-Hopper? Quality level Albert Westphal right before the title shot?

Floyd Patterson KO 1
Floyd Patterson KO 1 (15)
Albert Westphal KO 1 (10)
Howard King TKO 3 (10)
Eddie Machen UD 12
Zora Folley KO 3 (12)
Roy Harris TKO 1
Cleveland Williams TKO 2
Howard King RTD 7 (10)
Willi Besmanoff RTD 6 (10)
Niño Valdés KO 3 (10)
Cleveland Williams TKO 3

vs.

Cooper stopped in 2
Biggs stopped in 8
Seldon stopped in 1
Tillery stopped in 4
Coetzer stopped in 7
Holyfield UD12
Nelson stopped in 1
Dokes stopped in 1
Ferguson (who beat Mercer) stopped in 2
Loss Holyfield MD12 (basically a draw)
Donald on the run UD12
Hide on the run stopped in 6
Unbeaten SHW Gonzales mauled in 6
Holyfield stopped in 8

Yep, I guess its Sonny Liston who stopped more big durable guys as well as beat better opposition

 

Riddick beat very few opponents who proved themselves world-class.

Ferguson, Hide were no more than journeyman/gatekeeper level. Dokes was shot to bits and no longer in the rankings. How do those wins help his case at all? Why would you even think to bring up Coetzer? They were nothing special by the standards of their era.

Liston doesn't have anything comparable to the Golota debacles for a start and he beat more top 10 opponents.

 

Coetzer was a good opponent. Tough and athletic. Prime Bruno had a hard time with him and had to foul constantly to gain an advantage.

Gonzalez was as good as Valdez. Bowe battered the career and prime clean out of him.

 

I don't know, Liston list looks more impressive to me.

 

For the record who are all these big durable guys Bowe stopped? Some of them are big but aside from Holyfield not very durable.

Gonzalez doesn't have any wins that support the notion he was even a good journeyman. The results just aren't there. And no reason to think the Bowe fight ruined him.

 

One issue with Bowe is that we don't really have enough evidence to even say how he ranks in his own era because he largely refused to face the top guys. What reason is there to think he is better than Ruddock, McCall, Witherspoon, Tucker, etc?
He never beat the men in question and never beat anyone who beat them in their primes. Bowe's ranking among his contemporaries seems to be based on guesswork rather than actual results.

 

Good ol' Sonny, still the most hysterically over rated Heavy on this forum....

Was the "big" guy in his time, by todays standards he is small for a Heavy......pushed over a glass chinned Light Heavy who today would never ever move up to Heavy..............lest we not forget another no hoper Williams the House cat whose claim to fame is hitting Liston a couple of times before he folded....

Then meets what I would call the first Modern Super Heavy, a green Clay and quits........gives a Rotten Tomatoe Award winning performance in the rematch and quits again.....

Granite chin ? LOL, you aint get put to sleep from ONE punch by a ham and egger who could not crack a egg, even when old.......Foreman, Tyson, Holyfield never folded like that when old.......and not evem Tommy Chin got ;laid out from ONE fakking punch when he was washed up.

Riddick Bowe even when totally washed up,shot to pieces out of shape and un motivated never ever quit...you could not get that man to stay on the mat....Fact.

Liston aint the Big Guy here, while having a long reach he is slow as Molasses , over extends like crazy and is off balance while he lunges.....now that worked against the Skinnies and other Road kill of his time but Bowe will make him pay dearly, he will match him on the out side and will put a beating on him from the inside, those ripping short hooks and upper cuts will make Liston gun shy quick and will make him look for the exit sooner than later.

Defense ? Liston got hit plenty, Ali busted him up from pillar tp post, Williams connected plus Liston was marked plenty from other fighters.....he aint no defense genius and is not hard to find.

With Eddie Futch in his corner a motivated Bowe cannot be denied and will introduce another quit job at worst and a flat out KO at the Ugly Bear at best but Sonny aint winning that fight, period.

 

Coetzer was tough as an anvil but had scant athletic assets, no significant strength, speed, power, fluidity. Even tho he had light, bouncy feet, he didn't use angles well. You didn't need to go looking for him. He was a classic low risk opponent.

STILL, Bowe had issues with the guy and had to repeatedly go low to get the stoppage.

 

They looked like unintentional low blows to me. It happens. Coetzer was getting stopped regardless , his face was a mess from Bowe's punishing jab and right hand.

 

I'm sure they did look that way to you.

Bowe has his share of Golota in him... Elijah Tillery, Coetzer... various stupid moves at pressers, joining the Marines, kidnapping his wife... Great potential but 10 cent brain.

 

Worst post so far this week leaving aside the two regular nominees.

 

Had Bowe been willing to fight the punchers of his era especially Lennox Lewis I bet we would have seen some nasty knockout losses.
It's easier to avoid getting your chin tested if you don't fight punchers.

Riddick's era contained the likes of Tyson, Ruddock, Lewis, Tua all of whom Bowe conveniently failed to face.

 

Wow... I didn't think it was possible, but this post makes those of Serbian Loudmouth's seem genuinely decent!

 

I'm confused, I thought so many other people picked Marciano as the most hysterically over rated Heavy on this forum (FWIW I think both Marciano and Liston are amazing).