Sonny Liston vs Ridddick Bowe

Im playing by your rules , so are YOU intellectually dishonest or do you have comprehension difficulties .?. .

The thread asked if Bowe from the first Holyfield fight could beat Liston.

You brought up a washed up , past prime Bowe in his last ever fight at top level to support your agenda , so i brought up past prime Liston against Martin.

But my argument didn't end there. I produced amble evidence of Liston abandoning head movement while on the offensive.

In my original post, which you ignorantly claimed to cease reading after the first sentence , it clearly stated that Bowe would catch Liston as he came in.

I made this clear as its evident to anybody who knows what they are looking at , that Liston not mix offence and defence very well.

He left his chin open pretty much every time he thew his jab , which was a lot. He never tilted his head or tucked his chin in ,and he dropped his left heavily after throwing jabs.
You are looking at defence when attack , im looking at defence when on the attack , and where was none. That puts him at a disadvantage as he is going to have to press the action against Bowe.
A modern SHW with elite skills like Bowe will blow him away.

 

This is really interesting.

 

Whats interesting about it? Jack Dempsey was known for having good defence in his day.. That defence would not cut it in the modern era.
Liston did not beat elite competition. He has no elite level wins so those stats are worth about the same as Vitali Klitschkos round won to rounds lost ratio.
When Vitli stepped up he was not hard to hit.

 

I bought up Bowe in the Golota fight, when he was still in his 20s. He was not shot for the first fight, (though definitely past prime). He was just battered pillar to post because of his non-existant defense and took serious permanent irreversible damage. That's why he was shot for the second fight and why he is the way he is today.

The "Amble evidence" you displayed showed Liston using Head movement from start to finish, while pursuing Machen.

OK, I was refuting your laughable claim that Liston's head movement was bad.


I made this clear as its evident to anybody who knows what they are looking at , that Liston not mix offence and defence very well.

I'm starting to doubt you ever watched Liston outside of the Ali fights. This simply isn't true. If it was, Ali would've had a much easier time with a past prime Liston than he did in real life. Instead Ali, missed quite frequently was in for a fight, and was dead even on the cards at the time of the stoppage. And this was against, as I've stated before, a very rusty, injured, aging, and untrained Liston.

Why the hell would he have to press the action against Bowe? He is superior on the outside, and has the longer reach.

Aren't you the guy who always goes on a tirade against Klitschko (who I'm not a fan of) and deride him until the cows come home? He was "a modern SHW with elite skills". By far more skilled than Bowe. Yet you give him no chance against Liston. Go figure

 

False. Liston faces a lot of skilled fighters. What’s more impressive is they were faster guys who probably should have been catching him more. He didn’t face the best of competition but aside from Ali and Louis his resume holds up next to any bodies.

 

You shouldn't have. I would take Liston to beat Bowe who had become an unmotivated and lazy slob when he met Golota. Age has absolutely nothing to do with it.
The thread specifically states Bowe from Holyfield I.

Liston pressed the action against everybody he fought bar Patterson.

You even admit this yourself

He can't fight Bowe from the outside because he has shorter legs and because Bowe could get huge extension onto his shots when he wanted to , watch the Gonzalez fight for evidence of that.
Liston on the outside gets battered. His best approached his move in setting up the right hand behind a stiff jab. But his head movement was too poor so he won't succeed.
He struggled to get his offence going against Ali because he put too much effort into defence. The same would happen against Bowe.

 

You’re def way off on the head movement thing. I don’t see a problem picking Bowe (I’m picking Liston for this one) but saying Liston had poor head movement is atrociously false. I just watched Liston V Williams 2 for reference As if maybe I missed something. Nope great head movement. Not good. Great.

 

Whats so great about it?

 

Actually no, one of the most remarkable things about Liston's jab was how he could get extremely long extension out of it...so in other words Liston was great on the outside.

This post, more than the others (which at least had SOME intriguing ideas in them) makes me think you're basically just trolling.

An even casual viewer can see how long Liston's jab was, one of the longest and thus most effective in history.

It sounds more like you're the one hitting the highlight reels too much, my friend.

You might be best ignoring this guy, @swagdelfadeel

 

Are you a bit slow? I never had a bad word to say about Liston jab.

 

yeah @RulesMakeItInteresting It took me a while to figure out he was trolling (or just plain ignorant about Liston). Didn't catch on nearly as quick as you my friend . But unfortunately, yes you're right. He doesn't deserve my time. From here on out, he will not receive it anymore.

 

Liston was great fighter and his defense was definitely better than Bowe's. End of discussion.

 

I honestly don't think I ever quoted you in my life so I doubt i'll even notice. lol.

Just to close out , people see what they want to see. Some think comeback Foreman had good defence , others think he didn't. HanzaGod featured comeback Foreman in one of his defensive videos.
To some degree every fighter has a defence , even Bowe.

I illustrated how Liston did not have great defence in the firing rage. His offensive was his defence in close. A offensive battle in close between Liston and Bowe will only crown one victor. .. I backed up these claims with solid breakdown that can be seen on film. You had no more answers and tapped out. Simple as that.

 

Frazier's defence was better than Foremans.

 

But Liston wasn't a pressure fighter with strength disadvantage, he could outbox Bowe from outside as well.
Besides, Bowe was no Foreman.