Sonny Liston vs Ridddick Bowe

I had an answer for all of your laughable arguments though to be fair, you made it very easy seeing as it mainly consisted of you using a washed up drug addict in his 40s sick with a cold, using a fight in which Liston utilized head movement the entire bout, and flat out lying claiming that Liston always pursued his oppenents and never fought on the outside (even as an old shell, he displayed the ability to bomb away at a distance against Scrap Iron). But it's time for me to go now as I don't like feeding trolls (I make an exception for Choklab).

 

Definitely not.

I do feel that at his best, during the Holy I fight (and never again), Bowe had the potential to be a top ten ATG. He had a jab nearly as good as Foreman, Liston, Ali, and Holmes imo, a shockingly good inside game, and one hell of a shot when he straightened it out.

I am a huge admirer of both men from the abovementioned fight, I feel they were head and shoulders above any other heavyweight in the world at that point. That's one of the shames of Bowe's mismanagement; had Newman not been so greedy Bowe would have knocked Lewis out at that point. Any time later, Lewis probably would have creamed him...bad.

Sad that Bowe peaked at that fight and started declining almost immediately after. A total waste, and Newman definitely had something to do with that. What manager would advise his fighter to actually throw away a world title belt???

 

Totally true, the Leotis fight was a terrible example from that fool.

That said, the Wepner fight proved that Liston was still a viable contender imo.

I still try to envision what would have happened if Smokin' Joe had given Sonny a shot after the former beat Ellis.

 

I used Martin only as a counter to that guy using Golota. Only a fraction of what i posted related to the Martin fight. .

I presented you with a question , you were unable to answer.

You tried to claim i didn't credit Sonny for having a great jab , when i never once mentioned anything about his jab.

Tbh , i always had an inkling you were a bit of a simpleton , now im convinced of it.

 

Your whole argument consisted of using Bowe from the Golota fights , even what the thread specifically stated Bowe from the first Holyfield fight .

 

Bowe wasn't especially old against Golota and was thought to be prime going into the fights. I don't know why the Bowe from the Holyfield fight would be favored to do much better.

Maybe Golota was simply a bad matchup stylistically

Also, I'm not sure I agree with this talk of Bowe being a skilled SHW, he was clearly carrying excess poundage and was probably no bigger than Foreman in terms of muscle mass

 

I don't even know if I replied to this thread. I analyzed this one for a long time, and could not come up with a decisive conclusion. Both strong, tough guys, and I couldn't pick. I wouldn't pick either one to win by a knockout, that's sure. In the end, I think it all boils down to aggression. Whoever wants it more. Of course a draw isn't impossible, although neither man was ever in a draw (proof of their aggression). I think whoever wins this it's by the slimmest of margins. WAR for the ages. Outside both trade jolting jabs, and inside they're both hellcats. This is why I couldn't pick a winner or a loser:
Liston:
1) better jab (awesome jab)
2) more power P4P, and probably period
3) very tough; much harder to knock down than Bowe
4) better record against big punchers (Valdes, Williams, Folley, Patterson)
Bowe:
1) longer reach (Bowe knew how to take advantage of that; Holyfield and Hide both had fine jabs and got destroyed)
2) still a very powerful puncher
3) more determined; was knocked down thrice in two fights, and won both. Liston was floored twice and lost both by knockout
4) better inside fighter

I have close since both were good outside fighters, and both were dangerous inside. Both were tough and powerful as we all know. Very close fight. I would love to see a fight like this.

 

Sonny Liston would stop Riddick Bowe by a TKO 12. The Big Ugly Bear was a hungry contender in 1959, Big Daddy in 1992. Liston was a more composed fighter with a longer reach, 14 inch fist, and could take a good punch back then. Bowe was hungry for that one fight against Evander Holyfield, as Liston was trying to get at Floyd Patterson or Ingemar Johannson. The hungrier and more focused fighter wins, which is Liston, who would exploit Bowe's defense.

 

Yeah Dino's acting like Bowe's performance against Golota is comparable to Liston's against Martin, though that couldn't be further from the truth. Liston was an old fighter in his 40s (possibly even older), ten years past his peak, a drug addict, and was sick with a cold at the time. On the other hand, Bowe at the time of his first meeting with Golota, was undefeated barring a razor thin MD, that many thought he didn't lose, to a guy he'd already defeated twice in a bout that had outside circumstances that may have influenced the outcome and gave his opponent a well-needed reprieve. He was also coming off a career best victory by being the only person to stop Holyfield (Holyfield had a shoulder injury against Toney he wasn't knocked out. He was also in his 40s) who'd go on to defeat Tyson twice and "draw" with Lewis in their first bout and give him all he could handle in the second. They were in no way comparable.

 

Bowe did not have a longer reach. His was 81 inches to Liston's 84. He also was not more determined at all. He was a talented but lazy piece of **** who put it all together for one night not to dissimilar to Douglas. He shouldn't have hit the floor against a sick Holyfield in the first place, and only beat Golota because Golota fouled himself out (though I do think Golota was looking for a way out, as Golota had hit Bowe with his best shots, and not only was Bowe still standing but he was making a bit of a comeback which discouraged Golota).

 

Read my above post.

As much as I LOVE Liston, Frazier would've decapitated him at this stage though not without some stiff resistance from Liston who still had the styles advantage at that point.

 

I agree, but being that Bonavena knocked prime Joe down, I imagine even post-Ali Liston could do the same. That said, Joe was exactly the type to get right back up and clap his gloves together, ready to demolish.

 

Considering Bonavena fought Frazier in his 11th pro fight, I don't think it's really fair to say Frazier was in his prime. Frazier was not hard to hit at that point in time and had yet to master his head movement.

 

Liston was naturally a bigger man than holyfield,he had bigger (wider ) frame, Holyfield weighing barely 209 pounds looked a bodybuilder and had to train like mad lifting up weights.
Liston was a natural hw.

 

Oops, I forgot how early that fight was in Joe's career.