Sonny Liston vs Ridddick Bowe

Sonny Liston did not give up against Eddie Machen, he defeated Machen on Sept 7 1960 by unanimous decision. Floyd Patterson also defeated Eddie on July 5 1964 by unanimous decision. Machen did have a tendency to stay in there with many.

 

How the hell did he give up against Machen? He won via one-sided UD. He also gave up against Ali because he was rusty (having fought less than 6 minutes in 3 years), unmotivated, under-trained and went into the bout with a recorded shoulder injury. Liston also fought the majority of an 8 round bout with a broken jaw, and lost only by an SD that could've gone either way. He also was down on the cards against Williams, was staggered, forced to give ground, and had his nose broken and came back to knock him out. Liston being a quitter is one of the biggest myths in boxing history!

 

Liston quit against Machen, the same way Foreman quit against Frazier.

 

I mean mentally. After a while you could tell Liston was getting annoyed and didn't really want to win the fight that bad.

 

Hmmmm. Not sure I've heard that before. Out of respect I'll have to check out that fight again.

 

Yes , Liston was a quitter and a cheater. He applied solution to his gloves against Machen and Ali. He bullied smaller guys but would crumble when bullied by Bowe.

Golota wilted against Bowe twice. He gave it to Bowe by the bucketload but when Bowe rallied back he looked for a way out , twice.

Remember that Bowe broke Golota's jaw , dropped him and punched a nasty hole through his cheek. Without those debilitating low blows , Bowe would have been stronger and more effective , even in the unmotivated and lazy shape he was already in.

 

Would'nt you if someone was looking to just survive, a win is a win, it goes down as such in the record books. It also proved that Sonny Liston was not just a knockout monster, but he had stamina and could box when necessary.

 

I will never agree with you on the Machen fight, but read what I said to Richard. I mean that Liston quit mentally against Machen. After a while he didn't want to win the fight. Same with Ali, even though he was rusty like you said. I didn't mean that Liston was a quitter the way you were saying either. I think Liston was one of the toughest of all time for the reasons you stated. Marshall, Williams, and Folley all provided stern tests for Liston, and he hung tough all the way. Even in the Patterson fights Liston gets hit with some good shots and doesn't budge an inch. I meant that mentally, Liston had a tendency to give up in fights where he was up against a good boxer like Ali or Machen, and clearly lost motivation. Against both he accepted his fate. Against Machen, he settled for winning on points, but he didn't BEAT Machen. Against Ali, he gave up. The guy was easily frustrated against boxer styles and quit against them mentally.

 

Yes, I agree with you partially. In some ways I think it was a fine night for Liston. He proved that he could last 12 (not the way Foreman could last 12 against Jimmy Young, but last 12 and still be functional), and jab his way to a decision. On the other hand, I think Machen exposed the Liston wrecking machine for being very vulnerable, and easy to frustrate, outbox, escape from, jab with, etc.. Machen debunked the huge myth that Liston was unstoppable. Between the two, Machen was the one that impressed. He fought the exact type of fight he had intended to fight, made Liston look like an amateur, and only got hurt once. Machen looked like a real pro. However, Liston won an unsatisfying decision. I agree, points-wise, the fight had to go to Liston (due to the jab), but throughout the fight it was clear that Liston couldn't keep up with Machen's pace, he couldn't hit him, and when he could he couldn't hurt him. I think Liston's dissatisfaction was clear.

 

Rewatching the fight.

 

A fighter like Sonny Liston or Mike Tyson does not always have to win a fight by knockout to be a great fighter, going the distance shows good qualities, stamina, and boxing skills. Liston went 12 with Eddie Machen in 1960 and Mike Tyson went the distance with Tony TNT Tucker in 1987.Tyson did not throw his belt in the trash to avoid another fighter like Bowe did.

 

i love that fight

 

I thought Machen was more effective overall. Afterall, Liston was the one who got hurt in round 12, not Machen.

 

agreed

 

To be fair he gave up against Clay because he understood that he did not have any Remote chance and got frustrated, no excuse here, Liston was a monster when Ali kicked his ass and no version of Sonny would have any chance against 64 Clay