Sonny Liston vs Ridddick Bowe

Please elaborate how Liston "didn't really want to win the fight that bad".

"Yeah I didn't really wanna win the fight but ended up beating my guy 10 rounds to 2".

 

I couldn't agree more, but it's still quitting no matter who he's fighting and how talented they are.

 

Liston wasn't "a monster" when Ali beat him at all. He was in his mid 30s at the very least (likely older), rusty after having fought approx 6 minutes in three years, underestimated his opponent, and went into the bout with a recorded shoulder injury.

 

Excellent way to put it Rich!

 

He jabbed all night. Unless you're a boxer like Emile Griffith or Holmes or someone like that, I don't know of anyone who wants to win a fight on the jab. Certainly not Liston. Liston was unaggressive in the later stages of the fight. He rarely even tried to go for a knockout. In reality Machen fought much more competitively, even though he was trying not to get hit. The only reason Liston won the fight is because he had one of the greatest jabs of all time, and it served him well here. A good jab can often win a decision.

 

I know right, if he quits against a none puncher like Ali how fast does he quit against Bowe?

 

You're right that Bowe's resume isn't great but it's still probably better than Listons overall.

 

I don't buy in to the shoulder injury. During the first Ali bout Liston supposedly injured his shoulder, when it was clear that he couldn't have.

 

All excuses to me mate, and i don't buy at all the myth of Liston being very old when he fought Ali.
Liston would have destroyed any hw in the World in this year except Clay. Ali was simply much better

 

He doesn't have to chase Bowe tho.

 

Well I suppose it depends, did he quit because he was getting beat up or had he genuinely torn his rotator cuff in shoulder? If it's the former then we have to assume he quits in other tough fights. If it's the latter than maybe he doesn't quit but we also question his toughness. We know many fighters have won without being able to use their good hand

This is Danny Williams with a dislocated shoulder

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Liston clearly won the fight,you're the only poster I've ever come across who thinks otherwise.Even Machen knew he had lost!

 

Buddy McGirt went into the title fight with Whitaker with a torn rotator cuff. Liston had bursitis.Liston didnt quit with a broken jawl or a broken nose, anyone questioning his toughness should spend five minutes alone with him in a dark alley .

 

No way, Liston cleaned out the division before he won the title.

 

I think Liston was just frustrated with being outboxed. He couldn't touch Ali, and when he could he didn't hurt him significantly. I do not question Liston's physical toughness at all. The fact that Sonny quit on a shoulder injury (that he didn't appear to have had in the fight anyway) does not sound at all like the Liston who fought for 4 rounds with a broken jaw vs. Marty Marshall and still won the vote of one judge, and stopped Cleveland Williams after suffering a broken nose in the 1st round.