Sonny Liston vs Riddick Bowe primes

“Biggest and best men in the division” which was… 190lbers Machen, Folley, Patterson… then the next tier down is? Williams who sucked come now, Valdez??? (I don’t know much about the fella never seen him besides against Archie) but he was literally right at the end of an 18 year? long career, not exactly a showcase of a win however you want to slice it. Bowe made a career beating men smaller men than him because Bowe was the size of a barn, his resume is thin I agree doe, it’s just both are even if he “cleaned out the division” it matters who you beat… the “little guys” Bowe beat were about the same size as Liston lol show me his 5 best wins and I believe all are over 200lbs? It was the 90s so probably about 210-220lbs I don’t know this stuff of the top of my head, I think Holyfield the only great fighter (H2H) any of them beat, the walking chemist was the smallest at like 200lbs or something… till he packed on some lbs, wonder how Bowe would look vs an injured Machen… maybe glass jaw’d Folley or Patterson? Mm, Imagine how Liston might struggle if they swap opponents unlike Liston I highly doubt he’s almost stopped by Williams lol.

 

1. That lame size argument You dont know what you talking about Cleveland Williams is a heavier puncher than Bowe. Cleveland tried to knock him out and get on the inside it ended badly for him. George Foreman said Cleveland is the third hardest guy he fought. Bowe is not a heavy puncher and has never been considered one he is a combination puncher with how can you say he is a heavy puncher based on what? None of his opponents are as devastating hard hitting like Liston styles makes fights. How can you bully someone who is stronger than you and could push you away with his jabs?

2. Bowe has a porous defense always had one his praised for his trilogy with Holyfield I will repeat again Liston is not Holyfield his much more stronger and hard hitting. In all his fights with Holyfield where he was hit multiple times and was opened up you cant get away with that against Liston style makes fights. Bowe is vulnerable to a jab always has been and Sonny has one of the best jabs in history he knocked men out with it. You must be playing bro If a slow plodding Golotta who is not as skilled as Liston not only outjabbed him in both fights he outboxed him there is no way he would beat Liston based on such vulnerabilities.

3. Eddie Futch is Bowe coach he was also Joe Frazier trainer and we all know Joe Frazier is an inside fighter but guess what he wanted Joe Frazier to have no smoke with Liston whatsoever he knows that no inside fighter could have no success against Liston the same like George foreman styles makes fight Bowe is all wrong for Liston. If Liston can nail his 85 inch jabs on Bowe consecutively (Golotta sure as hell did who is slower!) than that fight will be a very painful one for Bowe plain and simple.

 

1.This guy sais this about that guy is a load of nonsense. Raham said Sanders is a bigger puncher than Lewis. McCall said Buster was a bigger puncher than Lewis. These biased accounts are endless.
If you don't trust your own judgment , then why should I.
Power is technique. Cleveland was a chopping puncher. No whip , no snap. Bowe had better technique and therefore better power. And better skills. Cleveland was basic.

2. If Bowe has bad defence , then Holyfield must have worse defence. The punch stats say Bowe landed more punches on Holyfield then vise a versa. So you agree Holyfield had worse defence then Bowe?
My stance is when you fight elite level guys back to back you are going to get hit. I don't remember Bowe getting hit very much from high skill level Larry Donald. . Yet when Donald was totally washed up he landed enough to get the victory against prime Valeuv.
We hear about Ali being the best defensive HW and look where he ended up after being a punch bag for most of his career. He was eating punishment all throughout his career. For the simple reason he was fighting high level opponents.
Was Liston a defensive wizzard? No. He was another guy who chopped his punches and was easy to land on. So calling out Bowe for defence shows lack of objectivity and renders you another WWE observer. You obviously like Liston more . Thats all there is to it

3. Joe Frazer was a modern cruiser weigh and fought with no jab. He is the total opposite of riddick bow. Bunk argument , total waste of time.

 

Williams was on the same level as Machen, Folley, and Patterson. Full stop. Wins over Bathea and Terrell, draws with Machen, etc. The downplay of him and the lack of knowledge on Valdes is a bit telling. And yes, although the win over Nino was late into his career, he was still an overall sound fighter- Wins over Bathea, DeJohn, and Summerlin in the year before the Liston fight, and a win over London after such.

"Bowe made a career beating men smaller than him because Bowe was the size of a barn" is a bit facetious. It was the 90s, not exactly hard to find a quality heavyweight over the 220 lb mark- Liston beat the best in the division regardless of size or style without much issue, whereas Bowe beat a spotty lineup with every other solid fighter other than the Holyfield or Biggs wins being QUESTIONABLE.

Beyond that, you're dodging any mentions of how Bowe struggled against hard punchers, and merely sticking to comparing resumes since it's a lot easier to make him look "good" through that.

 

Here's your hero...

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1. Wrong Cleveland Williams was a hard hitter than Bowe this is not an opinion this was based on experts I take their word over yours. I watched Bowe fights he is not a devastating puncher never have i seen Bowe ranked as a top 10 puncher even in his own era. You straight up lying I watched Cleveland Williams with my own eyes that man in the 50s was fast and had alot snap and a devastating you literally rewriting history here. I don't understand what the hell Lewis has to do with this conversation stick to the topic at hand.

2. Bowe has a porous defense once again Liston is not Holyfield Bowe won the trilogy against Holyfield I won't take that away from him like you discredit the 50s and 60s. However he has a porous defense he outlanded Holyfield but he was hit a whole lot in all fights I have eyes you can't rewrite history here. Bowe was opened up by Holyfield several times and Holyfield allowed himself to slug it out. Liston doesn't fight like Holyfield that small man fight goes out the window I never seen anyone physically impose themselves on Liston he pushed them back with his jabs and almost killed them. Styles makes fight if Golotta can nail a 29 year old Bowe consecutively with Jabs why can't Liston and Golotta if he wasn't dumb should of won both fights everyone agree he outboxed Bowe in both fights a slow plodding Golotta.

3. Joe Frazier is better than Bowe what you talking about and his resume is much better Joe is considered one of the best inside fighters at heavyweight. Bowe is only resume is against Holyfield thats it he is not better than Joe.

 

Hi Buddy.
You make a valid point concerning Listons early opponents, and most of the boxing fraternity now accept that he quit against Ali, well more likely the second time, mind you Bowe chose to bin his belt rather than fight Lewis, so........
stay safe buddy, chat soon.
Mike.

 

Massive Liston fan, have him a h2h nightmare for most...but I think Bowe beats him. Too big, too game, too unorthodox. A fight that swings back and forth for sure but I think Bowe's big heart brings him a late stoppage here...

 

Do yourself a favor mate, don't call anyone an obsessed gimp. You don't wanna open that can of worms.

 

Obsessed?? You went through my history like a crazed stalker. Thats what obsession looks like. Al least i direct my attention to the sport
As if if spend any time rummaging through the history of some mentally ill freak like you. Your behaviour reeks of chronic insecurity.

 

Not as simple as that as you have read countless threads on the matter over the years yet still choose to play dumb. Lewis played hard ball and Newman clashed with Don King for the same reasons that made Larry Holmes bin his belt. But Larry gets a passe because of mental conditioning

 

Your hero is the guy who put substance on his gloves to try blind Ali. . Chris Byrd accused Wlad of doing the same. What is it about cheaters you love so much?

Here's a description of your hero by Manny Steward.

"Chisora is the most dangerous opponent Wladimir will have fought in many years, because Dereck brings energy and confidence and youthfulness that's different from what we've been fighting in recent fights," he told Sky Sports Ringside.

"I think Dereck Chisora is a very tough fight. If it was up to me, I would not fight Dereck. I would prefer to fight with David Haye.

ONE day before the fight Wlad pulled out.

You have the audacity to criticize someone of ducking when your object of obsession ducked Derrick Chisora of all people. .

The worst thing about this for you is you can't even blame me because it comes directly from Wlads own trainer

 

I just KNOW this joker didn't just say that Sonny put stuff on his gloves against Ali... What Liston-isms is he gonna pull out next? "Yeah, his death was a genuine suicide, too."

 

I would, as I have for years normally start with " Hi Buddy " much the same as my post to you before, but in your case I will refrain, you are correct in your assertion that have read countless threads over the years, coincidently from both parties, they being the Lewis camp, and the Bowe camp, as usual both sides have differing views and observations on the reasons this fight didn't materials, as you must know this sort of thing happens often in the fight game particularly in the heavyweights, to wit, AJ and Fury, both sides have different versions why their fight didn't happen and so it goes on, more important for me is my post to you was polite and mannered, I gently made my point, it wasn't set in stone, just a different slant maybe, you response was to accuse me of playing dumb, in a very curt, and unfriendly manner, there was no need for that approach, I wasn't rude to you, in fact quite the opposite, suffice it to say I will not be exchanging posts with you in the future .

 

Ur smugly sanctimonious attitude isn't as subtle as you think it is. Goodbye.