Sonny Liston vs Riddick Bowe

I asked when Ali actually hurt Liston and you said 1963. Not even gonna give your last question any merit whatsoever such the irrelevance of it.

 

Better than anything Bowe could pull off, I will say that.

 

I replied to bolded and quoted you.

It was another poster you quoted and asked about Ali.

 

Liston was strong definitely stronger than the heavyweights of his era but we are talking a modern era big heavyweight. Bowe was single handidly the reason Holyfield started fighting at 215+ because at 205-208 he was not strong enough to fight the big heavyweights. Holy was one of the stronger heavyweights in history he p\was able to outmuscle and push around nearly everyone except Bowe. By the time his first fight with Bowe was done he had next to nothing left infighting and wrestling a high quality big man of that caliber who could fight on the inside as well as out was too much for a prototype 80's sized heavyweight in Holy. Bowe is not getting enough credit IMO because of his bad conditioning habits but a focused fit Bowe was a force to be reckoned with for any fighter in history that even the much smaller Liston would find to be too much.

 

My apologies. getting old man.

 

He handled old Foreman quite well. In terms of raw strength, old Foreman may have been stronger than Bowe, he certainly was bigger. Liston may have been stronger than the 205-208 pound Holyfield just in brute strength terms. Foreman definitely said Liston was one of the strongest men he ever met. Not to say that even if Liston did beat Bowe, it would be easy, but I don't see Bowe just out muscling Liston either.

 

It isn't about muscle it was about the natural size and strength of a modern heavyweight who liked to fight on the inside and was very good at all aspects of the game....I give Foreman his props for alot of things but a story teller and con man he is....I for one minute do not believe that Liston was stronger than the 90's heavyweights. I always felt that Holyfield was one of the strongest heavyweights in history he outgrappled and outpushed nearly every fighter he ever fought he had that Joe Frazier country boy blue collar natural strength to begin with when he moved up to heavy he started using weights but when he fought Bowe he knew then and there to fight a man that big, strong and capable he needed more size and strength and more importantly he learned that the added size and strength was for the inevitable he would have to stand and fight no matter how much he moved. I have not ever seen a big man control the ring quite like Bowe.

I am a fan of Liston but I am a realist in what he was fighting and who he was beating....he had a boxer-puncher style but naturally preferred to fight at range....I never saw him overpower any man of Bowe's caliber even a smaller version and as impressive as his KO's are he was the big man on the block in his peak the next evolution of the bigger heavyweight a marvel of the time post Marciano.....Tony Tucker, Bowe and Lewis were the prototype modern heavyweights and Bowe was the most complete he could box he could punch he could put his head on your chest all night and fight Frazier style....the Liston of his day so the speak....

 

Well maybe Bowe was stronger than Liston, who knows. But, it's not inconceivable that a 210-215 pound man could be stronger than a 235-240 pound man. It depends on several factors. Muscle mass and density, how the muscle is attached to the bone etc, the percentage of lean body mass to fat. Just because a guy may be lighter, doesn't automatically make him the weaker guy.

 

No but whose body has to expend more energy fighting who especially if the 240lb is well conditioned same as the 215lb man? I doubt there are very many fighters historically as well conditioned as Holyfield was and it broke him down he was energy and strength sapped by the end of the fights....I use those fights as great examples of two evenly matched fighters in all areas except natural size and leverage.

 

Liston would win a close split decision over Bowe. Too much dedication and skill for Riddick, who did have his moments. Evander would also lose to prime Sonny.

 

This is true, holyfield looked ready to keel over from a heart attack before he put bowe down and didnt manage anything else the entire round except that one big punch. Any healthy top 15 HW would have stopped bowe after that knockdown, bowe was out of it and stuck in the ccorner for over a minute without holyfield doing anything to keep him there

 

The only time Liston faced what we call today a modern sized heavy with skills in Ali he packed it in twice aka he quit.......no ifs or buts......never redeemed himself after that , fought some scrubs and got himself ko'ed in the process against said scrubs.

Liston had never ever seen a genuine extremely skilled Superweight like Bowe who could fight at range, up close and had pretty much a granite chin........never been counted out even when totally washed up and shot to shid......has one razor thin loss on his record against a ATG, who he beat previously from pillar to post and ultimately ko'ed cold in the rubber match.......same ATG who Lennox Lewis needed 24 rounds to win against when said ATG had even more miles on him.

Anyways, Bowe with Futch in his corner will wax the Ugly Bear pretty bad, but Sonny aint taking a beating, he will just quit again.

 

Uh guys here we got a real war

 

Ive never really seen Liston as this H2H god that some other see him as.

On the other hand, I'm not a Bowe fan, exactly.

I think that technically Liston may have had an edge over Bowe. His jab was much better, and it could be problematic for Bowe given how Golota took him apart with his jab. Liston also seemed to me (could be wrong) conditioned very well. Bowe was a slob that trained on fries and cheeseburgers between fights.

On the other hand, there's also the argument for Bowe.

Bowe is a house of a man and a bully that liked to impose his size by mixing it up. He had big power and could savage people on the inside. Unlike a bully, though, he had a big heart. Golota near damn killed him and he was still going to fight on. I can't ignore that. Nor the fact that Liston collapsed twice against (compared to Bowe) featherfisted Ali.

I think I lean towards Bowe winning this, in what would probably be a very good and fun fight.