Sonny Liston vs. Riddick Bowe

Bowe had crap defense yet took countless barrages from Evander, Hide, and Golata. Liston had his jaw broken by Marshall. Was stopped early twice by Ali who was no puncher. And while he was old against Leotos Martin he was facing a 199 lb fringe guy which little power and was brutally knocked out. I’ll accept the argument that Liston was a BETTER FIGHTER than Riddick Bowe but not necessarily that he had a better chin.

 

This would be a great fight. I can see the arguments both ways as well.

One thing is for damn sure, this would absolutely be worth the PPV price

 

Dude you know better but since you're being belligerent ... Bowe was iced multiple times in high profile amateur bouts. Bowe was manhandled by Lewis in the Olympics. Bowe's management steered his career so he would avoid any of the top caliber punchers .. Bowe has almost iced by Holyfield .. Boss was bnoumnced like a ball by Golota besides the fouls .. Liston took bombs from big time hitters , was TKO'ed by Ali based on age and a lack of activity and then tanking a fight .. hide was also old and then incident at the time .. no one here agrees Sith your point as it is incorrect ..

 

That’s pretty weak. You’re using what could have been an early stoppage in the amateurs by Lennox Lewis to build an argument that Bowe’s chin was more fragile than a man who had his jaw broken by a light heavyweight journeyman in the PROS.. lol priceless. Care to surmise how Liston’s chin would have held up to Lewis’ ? And while he may have been aging, he was stopped three times by men who weren’t even known for being hard hitters. Riddick Bowe traded at point BLANK with men like Holyfield, Golata, Hide, Cooper and Gonzalez.

 

You are wrong, period. Bowe and management avoided every top puncher of his time ..I believe you believe what you're writing which compounds the fact that you don't know what you don't know .. anyone else here think Bowe had a better chin than Liston ?

 

I’m wrong because you say so…. Solid post

 

Again, all of this means nothing without context, and you know this so you're being a bit disingenuous here.

You say Ali, and Martin (who'd literally killed a man) are not punchers yet bring up Holyfield, and Golota to bolster Bowe's chin? That's questionable at best, considering Holyfield (who was basically half dead at the time) and Golota both dropped him.

Even most of Liston's detractor's don't put any stock in this. Liston was in his SEVENTH pro-fight, and stepping up very quickly in class, facing a top ten fighter. Facing fighters in the top ten that early in your career is unheard of, and off the top of my head the only other heavyweight who's done anything similar is Radamacher. Liston was also said to have been laughing at the time, corroborated by multiple witnesses

"But that was a freak according to boxing men present. As one says Marshall was hitting away at Liston and Sonny was sort of laughing at him and suddenly just as he opened his mouth. Marshall hit him flush and broke the jaw." https://www.newspapers.com/clip/50550918/independent/

I don't even know where to start with this and have to assume A: you're not being serious, B; not arguing in good faith, C; are being disingenuous, or some combination of the three.

1. Both Ali fights were dubious particularly the 2nd, where the KO and imo the KD were almost certainly not real, and multiple sources including the FBI have said as much. It's as if, Liston was looking for a comfortable spot to lay one.

2. The stoppage in the first fight, was due to a shoulder injury, it had absolutely nothing to do with his chin.

3. Ali may not have been Shavers but he was still a respectable puncher with unique KOs over men like Foreman, and Bonavena. Pre exile Ali had a higher KO percentage than Lewis, Bowe, Frazier, and, Tyson, so let's not pretend he was a featherfist.

4. Are you going to dismiss the chins of Foreman, Frazier, Bonavena, etc because they were also stopped by (an older) Ali who according to you "was no puncher"?

You cannot be serious right now.

1. Liston was 39 years old minimum, a drug addict and was said to have a flu by those in his camp including Foreman.

2. Martin was Liston's former sparring partner, and a rated contender.

3. To say Martin had "little power" is absurd, to put it lightly. He'd brutally decapitated Karl Mildenberger, and put him down for the count, which eluded the likes of Ali, Machen, Cooper, Folley, etc. One of only two men to do so. He'd also literally KILLED another man in the ring (Sonny Banks who knocked down Ali). Furthermore, he was also said to have solid power by Frazier himself, his fellow Philadelphian who was in fact rumored to be ducking Martin.

4.

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Are you really going to sit there with a straight face and tell me, the fight ending combination had "little power" behind it?

Liston in his prime, took monster shots from Williams, Valdez, and Dejohn. Police also used to hit him with nightsticks over his head as hard as they could muster, only to see it had absolutely no effect on him.

"Williams hit Liston with a left hook that would have finished any other man" Gross remembered. "It would have torn some fighters hears off. Liston just blinked and came right back."

 

IMO Bowe had the better skillset. On the inside he could possibly overwhelm Sonny. Remember this is at their respective bests. Big Daddy put combinations together like no tall heavyweight ever has.

Bowe was so good inside he probably layed in there more than he should've. At 6-5 his jab was outstanding when he used it, and kept his range. Riddick had slightly quicker hands than Liston as well.

I don't dismiss Liston's chances entirely because the man could punch like a mule. Bowe could as well. A fight like this probably doesn't go the distance.

If I had to wager my last $100 I'm going Riddick Bowe by stoppage.

 

I mean how could you watch the two Golota fights and the Evander fights and go and say that. Against Andy he was a punching bag for the pole and sat pretty taking shots, Listons “feat” is the broken jaw fiasco with Marshall and not much else unless you wanna include 4? Rounds with Clev.

 

If he had a better skillset than Liston he wouldn't have went life and death with a shot Tubbs in a bout that many including myself scored against him, and he wouldn't have struggled nearly as much against Golota who Lewis and a shot Tyson went through with ease.

 

You can’t even call him a bigger hitter. You don’t know. Guys have said Bowe hit harder then Lennox- Holy called him the man who hurt him the most consistently and in terms of skills who did Liston box to make you say that? Better chin? That isn’t even debatable surely.

 

anyone would have gone down from that lefthook by Holyfield. He made Ray Mercer take a knee. He got up and stopped Evander.

 

Disingenuous huh ? You rant on about Liston’s age and ignore that Nino Valdez was pretty Fn old when Sonny fought him.. fact is Liston rarely displayed any durability because he was usually the one handing out all the pounding. Cleveland Williams hit hard and tagged Liston with some big shots but was dispatched pretty quickly. WHEN did Liston ever go 12 or more rounds while trading back and forth with someone who was hitting with everything but the kitchen sink ? Never happened. Was Mike Dejohn as big of a hitter as Golata or Hide or even Cooper ? Did Bowe ever have HIS jaw broken early in his career by anyone let alone a light heavyweight ? Was Bowe in his prime when he fought Golata ? Do you know for a fact that Ali’s rematch with Liston was a dive? You also called the first fight “ dubious “ You argue using one way tactics but here are some interesting stats:

Number of fights with sub 200 pounders:
Liston - 26
Bowe - 1

Number of times stopped in a career:

Liston - 3
Bowe - 0

Number of big punchers faced :

Liston - 3
Bowe - 5

 

So what? Liston got KOd by one punch from Ali who wasn't anywhere near the puncher Bowe was. Leotis Martin KOd him and Liston couldn't knock Chuck Wepner off his feet.

 

Great post in defence of Floyd. I love the guy and have never put together such a compelling case for greatness as that. His consistency post championship in an era dominated by younger and bigger men is Holyfieldesque, minus the shadow of PEDs.