This point is completely irrelevant. Why ? Because Liston never faced a long list of big punchers either and it’s doubtful that the punchers he DID face were harder hitters than the ones Bowe fought.
Since you put up the vid of the fight, easy to review again, right, left, right - Sonny virtually out on his feet from the first punch making the searing follow ups particularly dangerous. The absolute personification of how to finish a fight once your opponent is hurt. Sonny struggling to breathe by that stage, likely making him more susceptible to being short circuited by a great shot. Love the pre fight intros - ironically they mention how Martin himself was stopped by Ellis in round 9 due to a bad cut inside the mouth that impaired his breathing - I’m a Liston fan but always try to be objective re Sonny. Hard fight to watch due to the ending but, all in all, a very good fight IMO with pretty clear film and particularly good audio pick up - fights are so much more enhanced when you can hear the varying intensities of each and every punch.
I feel like prime Bowe is underated as hell but I will take Sonny in this one. Sonny was the smaller man but was the more physically stronger man and I have no doubt about that. Riddick would not be conformable on the outside against that jab of Sonny and would try to use his excellent inside game against Sonny but the sheer physical strength of Liston would cause him a lot of problems. By know means a slam dunk but I like Sonny.
It was a good left hook, but let's not get carried away. I'd venture most formidable fighters would've remained on their feet without being in serious trouble.
1. What does this remotely have to do with who had the better skillset? 2. "Liston got KOd by one punch from Ali who wasn't anywhere near the puncher Bowe was". Of course, you don't actually believe this do you? Let me refresh your memory. 3. "Leotis Martin KOd him" Jesus have you and Magoo been hacked? Your posts are dishonest at best, in this thread. Liston was 39 against Martin, a drug addict, and according to those around him sick with a cold. 4. "Liston couldn't knock Chuck Wepner off his feet" Oh really? I have the full bout, and Liston did knock him down in round 5 and all of this is easily verifiable. I honestly don't know if you're truly this ignorant or are continuing to disingenuous to drive home a point.
No offence, but Williams hit much much harder than anyone on Bowe's resume, as did Dejohn and Valdez even at that stage in his career. Nobody on his resume even come close to their power. Holyfield was better than all three of course. but his power didn't compare to their power. Tbh I don't even think he hit harder than Ali.
It was a really cool and tricky hook, not devastating. Holy fired a couple of purposely lower velocity lefts before that to fool Bowe into relaxing. Well placed, perfectly planned and timed...but certainly no Joe Frazier, and Holy himself would be 1st to admit that.
I spit my water out laughing at the comment (ETM's) One of the most outrageous posts I've ever seen here. If it landed on and knocked out out Liston, they'd be saying that punch wouldn't have phased a grape. Frazier landed countless better hooks than that on Ali who stayed upright.
Valdez was 34 when he fought Liston. Since we're dismissing losses on the basis of age, can we also throw out Liston's losses to Ali when he was 34 and 35 at least? Also, can we also write off Liston's loss to Martin since he was also 39 years old (minimum) or is that to objective? He might've been dispatched quickly but he inflicted a lot of damage while he was in the ring, including breaking Liston's nose, visibly staggering him, and forcing him to give ground which nobody else ever did. I'm glad you saw all his fights to say this with the confidence you have. Liston stated Dejohn was the second hardest puncher he'd faced. Chuvalo said he was tied with FOREMAN for the hardest puncher he'd ever faced which is quite a statement considering everyone he had been in the ring with ... and that he faced a shot Dejohn in his last fight. Again, Liston was facing a top ten fighter in his 7th fight. Who was Bowe facing at this stage? 0-8 Anthony Hayes. Also Marshall was not a light heavyweight as he was 181 pounds in the fight which is above the limit for a lhwy. According to witnesses, Liston also had his jaw open, as he was laughing at Marshall, and if you see any bouts of Marshall (specifically his one against Johnson) you can see him fooling around, whooping, etc as witnesses describe he did against Liston. It's absolutely insane how much stock you put into this. Even Liston's biggest detractions don't put nearly as much stock into this as you do. You're making a mountain out of a mole-hill? Do you chastise Ali half as much for having his jaw broken by Norton? Ali wasn't even green, on the contrary he was the #1 contender, and would go on just a year later to the biggest victory of his career. Let me get this straight. Liston's losses to Ali and Martin are fair game even though he was minimyum 34/35 and 39 respectively, but Bowe's performances against Golota don't count because he was past prime at 28/29. No double standards here! Your body ETM does. Also: Fbi Agent William Roemer Fbi Agent; We'd learned their had very definitely been a fix in that fight source: This content is protected FBI agents also suspected the first fight was fixed. You argue using one way tactics but here are some interesting stats: Number of fights with sub 200 pounders: Liston - 26 Bowe - 1 Number of times stopped in a career: Liston - 3 Bowe - 0 Number of big punchers faced : Liston - 3 Bowe - 5[/QUOTE] Do you know how easy these stats are to make? Chuvalo Number of fights with sub 200 pounders: 34 minimum (likely more) Number of times stopped in a career: 2 Number of big punchers faced: 3 (Unless you include a literally shot Williams who Chuvalo did say was one of the hardest punchers he'd ever faced, making it 4) See? These statistics are meaningless without context, you know this yet still continue to produce them which is blatant dishonesty, and disingenuity. On a side note I'm in for a laugh. Who are these five punchers you listed for Bowe? Also you never answered my question: Are you going to sit here and tell me this combination was of "little power"? This content is protected Remember this is the same fighter you said had "little power" despite literally killing a contender in the ring, and mysteriously happening to show up in The Ring's top 100 P4P fighters of all time at #68. Crazy ain't it?
Based on testimonies between opponents, the eye test, and the effect their power has on opponents. Regarding the aforementioned list of all of these monstrous punchers Bowe fought, only one ever showed up on the aforementioned List of The Ring's top 100 P4P punchers; Holyfield at number 77, who's a decent amount behind "little power Martin" at 65, and a tremendous amount behind Cleveland Williams at #49.
