Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano - Who wins?

The man...who as Heavyweight Champion Of The World....QUIT while sitting on his stool against the light hitting Cassius Clay in Feb. of 1964 in Miami Beach...and in May of 1965 up in Lewiston Maine...was..."ahem"...knocked out...(or took a dive)..
..by the phantom...(anchor punch)...punch from Clay...is going to beat the man...
whom author Everett Skehan...called the "fiercest...most determined...and relentless fighter that ever lived"? Liston is the most overrated fighter...besides George Foreman ...on this site. With his power...heart...stamina...and conditioning...Marciano out-guts Sonny. People talk about Sonny's height...his reach...etc. Marciano can't be solely judged by what we can see.

 

Yup.


The interview was conducted by freelance writer Robert Mladinich. It has appeared in a few magazines over the years.

Quote:
Keene Simmons: "Rocky could take a good punch and give one too" said Simmons. "He was not a fancy boxer, but he hit hard and just kept putting combinations together. I managed to cut his eye, and thought I was winning. But Rocky had so much power and determination, I really can't take anything away from him. Every time I hit him, which was a lot, he came right back with more." Two years after this heartbreaking loss, Simmons faced another murderous puncher, Cleveland Williams, and lost a close decision. When asked who hit harder, HE PROCLAIMED WITHOUT HESITATION THAT MARCIANO DID. Simmons went on to become a long time sparring partner for Marciano after he became champion" unquote.

The summing up of the article mentioned how Simmons got on after his career. Described as "still a fine physical specimen at 79" He drove a NYC bus for over 20 years and was only five pounds over his best fighting weight at the time of the article. Married for 42 years and a regular attendee at the monthly ring 8 veteran ring association meetings he was photographed at the time with his dukes up wearing a leather jacket and news boy cap. He looks pretty tough for 79!

I believe Williams was a special puncher too. He clearly had heavy hands but he only knocked out fighters up to a level. Punching power can be measured on machines and sensed in sparring sessions but in my opinion the better puncher is always the one with the pedigree who can knock out the better fighters on the biggest stage.

 

Incredible match with two very different styles that would cause problems for the smaller, slower man. I see Liston using his tools better than Marciano. After a few Marciano flurries that turn the tide and put Liston into fits of trouble, the tide eventually switches one last time with a bloody Marciano getting stopped near the 10th round. Liston TKO 10 Marciano.

 

Mcvey knows a lot more about boxing than you. I've had my fair share or problems with Mcvey but I grew up. I think you should to. I was being rude and unfair to him. I instigated all our fights. I was wrong and i'm sorry for that. But I digress. Back to the topic, Personally I think you are a very good poster but when it comes to Liston you suddenly get filled with this feeling of hatred for him, and you say he loses to practically every fighter he gets into a fight with. When McGrain called you out on it, you lied saying you liked Liston.

 

Swag my re[ect for you just skyrocketed.

It takes a man with both humility & big cojones to confess bias & being wrong. This is unusual on most all forums, & very admirable. :thumbsup

Bummy Davis, I appreciate your boxing knowledge.

What you wrote seems fair, yet still Rocky never fought a near great, let alone ATG slugger.

Liston had enough skill that with that telephone poll jab I see no good chance for Rocky prime vs. prime. nOr most anytime when they were the same age & both training.

I do not think great heart & endurance would do it. Rocky's crushing power & ability to win wars of attrition would be neautralized by the gap in power & length.

Rocky had some subtle skills, but nobody can afford to take as many shots as he would vs. Liston.

 

I re typed it from an article I saved from a ring magazine clipping from the 1990s.

The article includes interviews with surviving marciano opponents Lastarza, Mathews, Lowry and Wallace. The part with Lastarza also appeared in another magazine called "fight scene". I have that clipping too.

When I got married I cut out the articles that interested me and threw away the rest of the newer magazines from my collection at that time. Wish I could tell you the issue number and page but that's all I have.

 

Sonny Liston said Williams was the hardest puncher he faced and so did Ernie Terrell.I believe them.:good

 

Who Williams lost to and who they lost to is not the point. His durability has nothing to do with his power, otherwise we would exclude Satterfield from the punchers list!
It's irrelevant to the question!

 

Williams proberbly was one of the biggest punchers of the 1960s but behind Liston, ingo and Patterson who could knock out better fighters. Satterfeild has better knockout victims on his resume than Williams has too. I think Bummy makes a good point about Williams power not being such an issue once he moved into world class.

 

They were not the only ones.

I am not sold on Williams as a fighter, but I am sold on his power.

 

Power is fine but if you aren't good enough to apply it in the heat of battle then what's the point of it?

Williams was an amazing physical specimen and I've no doubt if you stood stock still and let him take a running punch at you then he'd hit harder than Rocky if he did likewise. But fights don't play out that way and as an effective puncher against world rated opposition Marciano is streets ahead of Williams and his record bears that out.

Marciano had the potential to and indeed did cause lasting physical damage to several opponents with his relentless and brutal attack. Liston had scary power and was an elite puncher but I don't recall him physically harming opponents to the extent Marciano did but of course he was a different sort of fighter and puncher which must be taken into account.

If you make this a simplistic match up using the Foreman-Frazier precedent as an indicator of how this would play out then all indicators are that Liston wins. But I don't see this fight playing out that way at all and I think the absolute peak Marciano (the animal that was 51-2 Rocky) is a huge chance to stop Liston who never faced an effective puncher/fighter of peak Marciano's calibre imo.

Still it is an epic match up between two of the best ever and I'm inclined to keep an open mind about it and am enjoying reading everyone's opinions of it.

 

Excellent post. :good

Understandably the majority will draw Frazier v Foreman conclusions but an open mind is certainly required when assessing all time great champions at their best.

 

Williams was a 20 years old kid when he fought Simmons.
He would add another 10 lbs of muscle to his frame as he matured.


In his book Rocky Marciano: The Rock of His Times, Russell Sullivan wrote: "Marciano was in trouble early before winning—and not before drawing some boos from the Providence crowd for hurling a few low blows.

 

Rocky Marciano was unequivocally greater than Sonny Liston.

Its hard to escape the conclusion Liston is all wrong for him however.

This in itself doesn't necessarily mean that Liston would win, but that might be the smart prediction if the fight was going down tomorrow.