Sonny Liston vs Rocky Marciano - Who wins?

I have a hard time rating Williams as a great puncher without many quality names to back it up. I don't rate Shannon Briggs as a great puncher for he same reason. Can they bang yes do they deserve ATG status as punchers in my book no.

 

Well I wouldn't label Williams a great puncher for what it's worth. Could he punch hard absolutely but so can many other heavyweights.

 

He is not one of my favorite because he has not had an impressive professional career and thus not one of my favorite proven PUNCHERS. I am simply not at all impressed with anything he has done in the ring and guys that were being Ko'd by others at the same time frame he did not even drop.

There are a few so called experts that I respect their opinions but many that have limited knowledge that are called experts. I knew Nat Fleischer and respected his opinion but to be honest I doubt Nat was alive at the time that those ratings were formulated or had any input adding Big Cats name to the list based off of his pro ring performance. His brother in law Nat Loubet and Loubets son in law John Ort had more knowledge of Pro Wresting and bribes in that order.

 

I did not say the man could not hit but that his power did not impress the pro ring. As far as what other kind words others say about Williams that would carry some weight but Williams was iced 2 X vs Liston so its odd that Williams hit harder than the men that knocked Liston out or dropped him and like you said" Liston brushed off his punches. Foreman I heard say many things and they all vary.

By the way you have a nice way of putting things and like I said I have some strong opinions but you are no slouch when it comes to brick walls :good

 

I wasn't really arguing that Marciano hit harder than Liston. I was arguing against the more general point that just because someone is heavier he is automatically a harder puncher, irregardless of results and testimony. I have seen people argue that Sam McVea hit harder than Langford all evidence to the contrary aside and its real relevancy here is in the idea that Marciano, due to size would be unable to hurt Liston, simply because Cleveland Williams was unable to make a dent. Marciano does not hit harder than the best punching 215 pound heavyweights; but he might hit harder than 3rd best 215 pound heavyweight and that should be recognized as a possibility.

As for the Olympic weightlifting while what you said is true, the difference is less than you say because the total weight lifted is summed up between the two events. It is more or 18 kg (a still significant number). Anyway the gold medalist in 2012 lifted 385 kg total which was good enough for 8th in the division above and 16th in the unlimited division which i think backs up my point, that even with a severe weight disadvantage if you consider Marciano a world class puncher, he is of size to be a significant puncher regardless of weight.

Anyway the point in your edit stands, that a lot goes in to what makes a puncher.