Sonny Liston vs the following Louis foes

Foreman never had stamina problems, he had problems pacing his fights.You don't go the distance with the world champion when you are in your 40s without once using a stool if you are short on stamina.
How old was Liston when he beat Wepner? lol

 

Louis was as young fighter facing Schmelling, as Liston wgo faced Marshall.
And that was Schmelling, no shame losing against him unlike Liston who lost to a journeyman who started his debut as 165lb fighter.
He struggled in their third fight too, Liston was unable to KO him again, Liston was heavier 25 pounds and two categories bigger, and still struggled with him.

 

Foreman had stamina problems, even Chuvalo said so.
Problem pacing himself?
That's called stamina problem, even if you say that he was dehydrated against Al, then what about Jimmy Young fight?
I don't care how old Liston was there, Lewis was 38 and Walcott was as old too when they were champions, the fight is what matters.
50 years old Foreman would still beat Wepner faster than Liston did.
I have seen same excuses over and over, he was too young or too old, but again even if he was old, he shouldn't fight if he would use that as excuse for losing or struggling to KO someone.

 

The biggest myth crrated by Liston fans is that Leotis Martin retired because injury from Liston, but he had that injury long before Liston fight.

 

Galento, Baer and Nova would be significantly more challenging to deal with than O'Holloran. Quarry was a decent puncher, Ali didn't have big power. Both Baers hit at least twice as hard as those guys.

Tony would be delighted to trade his left hook for any of Norton's punches.

1-2. All these guys were durable.

He had one of the best performances of his career against a prime Larry Holmes in the previous fight.

He would have some success. Good counterpunching, good heart and stamina, but I see him having very tough fights with Hamas, Farr, the Baers, Schmeling, Godoy, Pastor and other top guys. He'd have a checkered record.

I was talking about how Liston's record wouldn't look perfect if he had begun his career in the 1930s.

I checked both the NBA and the Ring rankings, couldn't find him anywhere between 1955 and 1962. Maybe I missed him, NBA has rankings for every month, maybe he is in there somewhere, but I did give them a good look. In any case, Whitehurst record is nothing impressive. He has a win over a long past it Satterfield, and then the rest are losses to top guys like Moore and Johnson. Liston should not have let him go the distance twice. Again, that shows Liston's problem with finishing and tracking opponents. Ramage and Loughran should at least be favored to last the fight against him.

Yes. Very hard shots for a man who tore his bicep tendon 4 rounds back.

Marshall is not someone he should be losing to, Williams didn't last longer than 5 rounds. These are not the fights where a legendary figure should have to tap into their willpower reserves. The two championship fights against Ali were his golden opportunities.

He beat one slick boxer and then got completely shut down two times by another. He also had subpar unranked fighters go the distance against him when he was nearing his prime.

There is no agenda. Liston was a real person, and a fighter with pros and cons. He wasn't the unstoppable monster he is made out to be and you'd think people would know this after 1964. He isn't going to walz through Sharkey and Schmeling when those guys are at their best, and in a series he is dropping fights to them.

Galento was on his knees, hugging the referee and his face in pieces, in the 4th round. Buddy was dragged back to his corner by his entourage, yes, Foreman could do a little better and crawl back to his corner after Louis is through with him.

George went 4-2 in his prime against the contenders of his era. Louis is a bridge too far.

Schmeling has the bigger win because he was the better fighter. Better IQ, better courage, better counter puncher. At his best he trumps any performance of Patterson and he stopped more durable people than Floyd did.

 

Pastor isn't the only heavyweight Conn stopped. Just because Conn wasn't a good puncher doesn't mean you can afford to get repeatedly tagged by him for 12 rounds.
Williams isn't touching Pastor nearly often enough to replicate Conn's success.

Pastor going the distance against that version of Louis is still extremely impressive. It's not like Louis wasn't cornering him and cutting off the ring.

In the second fight, Pastor came to prove that he could take the fight to Louis.
He stood his ground more and was floored 4 times in the first round. No one who takes those punches and gets up to fight for ten more rounds is going to fold against Cleveland Williams of all people.

 

Yesss

 

Liston KO Louis

 

Thats an absolutely ridiculous comparison.
Louis had been a pro for 2 years had won 36 fights,he had beaten name fighters like.
Brown
Delaney
Ramage x2
Poreda
Barry
Perroni
Uzcudun
Massera
Retzlaff
Levinsky
And two former world heavyweight champions Baer and Carnera.

Liston had fought just 7 fights and did not have a cornerman or a manager with him when he fought Marshall.
Liston lost a split dec to a cagey defensive fighter who had 27 fights under his belt and he did it fighting with a broken jaw.
Ludicrously agenda driven and blatantly biased post. Bye.

 

Blatantly biased and totally inaccurate.
Liston had no trouble with Marshall in their third fight.
Marshall did not win a round! He ran like a thief and never tried to do anything but survive.
"Liston apparently planned to coast through the bout, and (Referee) McTiernan warned him twice to get in there and fight." Liston had Marshall on the verge of a knockout on several occasions, but the safety-minded Detroit fighter found a way to survive."

I'm sorry I wasted my time trying to debate with you ,Your agenda is so obvious,I'm annoyed with myself for not noticing it earlier!

 

Five feet eight and a half 180lbs TurkeyThompson floored Pastor 6 times,I think Williams could match that,but I doubt he would need to.

 

They were the same age as Liston and Louis when that happened plus Liston had more amateur experience than Louis did. So yeah almost the same experience in fighting and the same age and Louis never lost a journeyman like Marshall but only to Schmelling. All that you said shows how Louis was much more talented so all you said did favor to Louis, not for Liston.

 

Cagey defensive fighter who was a bum, started as a Middleweight and was lighter 25 pounds than Liston.
How much more are you going to exaggerate his opponents just to make it look like he has a good record and to spread the hype about him?

 

Marshall, a last minute substitute for Harold Johnson, lost all but the first round and it was even. Johnson hurt his shoulder while training for the bout. (UP) From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette- "Liston apparently planned to coast through the bout, and (Referee) McTiernan warned him twice to get in there and fight." Liston had Marshall on the verge of a knockout on several occasions, but the safety-minded Detroit fighter found a way to survive.

So yeah even with a broken shoulder and lighter 30 pounds in this fight, almighty Liston could not KO him in his 13th pro fight?
You didn't quote all that because it would make your hero look bad Isn't that true?
3rd fight after this was his fight with Whitehurst and 5th fight was Bethea, one of the best wins he ever did, so what is next, was he green in their third fight too?

 

Williams also lost against against 177 pounds Satterfield so I think Pastor would have nice chance decking Williams glass jaw.