Sonny Liston vs. Vitali Klitschko

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Balder, Mar 31, 2015.

  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

    90,478
    8,827
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Mar 21, 2007
    That's fact.

    But it's a rare man that can't admit one.
     
  2. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    54,082
    9,095
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007
    No one get cut in the Amateurs? Very wrong. How about Kickboxing? Vitali said he was never cut until Lewis in kickboxing matches too, both pro and amateur. My point, which is he was only cut one in 200+ combat matches.
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    54,082
    9,095
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007
    I make mistakes. Who doesn't?
     
  4. Eddie Ezzard

    Eddie Ezzard Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,968
    1,926
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jan 19, 2016
    My point is that one of the main reasons that amateurs wear headguards, much the same as pros when sparring, is that they prevent the glove making direct contact with the vulnerable areas around the brow which are prone to being cut.

    You say that such a statement is not just wrong but 'very wrong' but instead of backing that assertion with some stats on the numbers of amateurs cut - and let's be honest; you like a stat - you ask me 'how about kickboxing?'.

    Never mind kickboxing. If I am 'very wrong' and lots of amateurs get cuts - in amateur boxing - despite the headgear, show me.

    Otherwise, I'll carry on thinking that it's a fairly shallow boast that he didn't get cut in 200+ amateur bouts when he wore protective gear whose primary purpose is to prevent him from getting cut for all of those 200+ bouts.
     
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

    54,082
    9,095
    Sportsbook:
    1
    Jun 29, 2007
    Headguards according to the fighters increase the impact to the blows and do not make anyone immune from cuts. I hated them, they limit vision. Mitigate cuts, okay, but my point, which I am adding to is in all his pro boxing and kickboxing matches he was only cut bad once, and it never happened in the amateur matches where cuts are possible, but less likely. Agreed?

    The above facts to me suggest he's not cut prone. Did you see the video link I posted by the way?

    My other point is Liston was cut and swelled up more often.
     
  6. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker Full Member

    21,611
    3,600
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 15, 2008
    I like Sonny ..
     
  7. djanders

    djanders Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,316
    13
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Feb 21, 2009
    On an all time list I would rank Liston higher. Head to head is a really good fight but I'd still go with Sonny. Vitali would be busier but Liston hits harder, IMO. I think he would bust Vilali up.
     
  8. VVMM

    VVMM Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,344
    312
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Nov 16, 2012
    I think Liston couldn't hit harder.His best kos were Patterson and this opponent had a glass-chin with a very dangerous
    style.Vitali Klitschko could knock out tough fighters like Sanders,Donald,Danny Williams or Bean.
    Liston is very overrated maybe the most overrated fighter.
     
  9. THE BLADE 2

    THE BLADE 2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

    9,520
    2,602
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Jul 14, 2009
    Vitali threw arm punches
     
  10. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    36,111
    13,081
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Apr 27, 2005
  11. Entaowed

    Entaowed Boxing Addict Full Member

    3,370
    1,011
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Dec 16, 2012
    Yes some people had a better chin than Vitali.
    His was excellent by any normal standard, but in a career-especially in terms of rounds fought-shorter than some HWs who were knocked down once or never, he was down twice in sparring.
    This content is protected


    Also a chin in about how much you can take without being knocked down or out. When you have an 87.23 KO%, are very long & awkward, you do not absorb nearly as many shots as say a swarmer like Chuvalo who fought forever.

    As did McCall, my #1 beard, a come forward "The Atomic Bull" fighter, never down in his life including sparring over 300 rounds with Tyson.

    Oh & of course Liston hit harder than Vitai.
    That Vitali beat bigger & better fighters with more KOs in a shorter career just shows that he was more effective overall.
    And his ability to land punches including in comibtations while avoiding damage was top flight.

    It is virtually impossible that all the testimony about how hard they each hit-& looking at the biomechanics of how much they committed with their whole body-do not mean Liston did not strike like an anvil with his huge, heavy hands.
    Vitali hit hard due to his size, & sometimes committed such as wailing away vs. Lennox.

    But Lewis though maybe more exhausted than Vitali was not ready to go due to the force of the blows by a long shot.
    It would be more likely IF it was a Liston or Foreman managing to land as often & squarely.
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2020
  12. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

    50,767
    9,568
    Sportsbook:
    2,068
    Jul 21, 2012


    Vitali was knocked down by journeyman Troy Roberts. Vitali didn't like it and tended to backup when punches were thrown inside his hit-box.. This is because he had no inside game.
    He would need inside skills to defeat Listion.
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    52,522
    12,167
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Nov 24, 2005
    You wrote .0038%
    And then you changed it, after I queried it !
    Because you had it wrong.

    But, yeah, thanks for giving me a "chance to clarify". :lol:
     
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    52,522
    12,167
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Nov 24, 2005
    Any normal person here would have responded something like :

    "yes, sorry, I meant 0.38% not 0.0038%. I've edited that now"
    And that's that.
    Instead of pointing it back at me and telling I'm in the wrong.

    And, believe me, the bar set for "normal person here" is pretty ****ing low. :lol:
     
    JohnThomas1 likes this.
  15. BCS8

    BCS8 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    32,832
    24,444
    Sportsbook:
    1,000
    Aug 21, 2012
    :lol:

    Dino has found a new, deluded angle for his monomania.

    I wonder how much Klitschko footage he had to grind through to find a pic of Vitali getting pushed down? :lol:
     
    Mendoza likes this.