Sonny Liston vs. Vitali Klitschko

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Hookie, Oct 13, 2015.


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  1. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    There is a lot of discussion about both on this forum. Let's match them up and see what people have to say about it.
     
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    #1
  2. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Can't see too many advantages for Liston here... Vitali UD.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 13, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 13, 2015
    #2
    ascended likes this.
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    How about reach, power and technique?
     
    McGrain, Oct 13, 2015
    McGrain, Oct 13, 2015
    #3
  4. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    Liston is about 6' 1/2" with an 84" reach and 210-215 Lbs.

    Klitschko is 6'7 1/2" with an 80" reach and 245-250 Lbs.

    Klitschko is 7" taller and about 35 Lbs. heavier. Sure, Liston's reach is 4" longer but when you have to punch up... things are much different.

    Chin? Klitschko was never down but stopped twice. Liston was down twice and stopped 3 times. They could both take a good shot but I'm going with Klitschko here. Klitschko took shots from a lot of big men who could punch, Liston did not.

    I like Klitchko in this fight, maybe even by late round stoppage.
     
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    #4
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    why?
     
    McGrain, Oct 13, 2015
    McGrain, Oct 13, 2015
    #5
  6. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    Lewis reach wasn't a big issue, plus he's 6'5". The distance from point A to point B doesn't change due to height... but the distance between the two fighters can be much closer if 1 fighter is 6 or 7" taller. Think about it... fighter A is 6' and is trying to land to the head of fighter B who is 6'7". Fighter A has the longer reach but has to punch up, way up... he's going to have to be a little closer to his opponent than what he may be used to in order to land that punch on such a tall fighter, therefore taking a little something off of that "supposed" reach advantage.

    Liston's reach isn't going to be a problem for Klitschko in this fight.
     
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    #6
  7. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    He can jab to the body.
     
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 13, 2015
    Pugilist_Spec, Oct 13, 2015
    #7
  8. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    Stand facing the wall, keep your shoulders back, keep your chest and back parallel with the wall.

    Put either arm straight out, just barely touching the wall with the knuckles of a closed fist.

    Without moving your feet or leaning forward... keep parallel... try to touch a spot on the wall higher than your head with the knuckles of that same clenched fist.

    It can't be done!
     
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    #8
  9. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    True, but whatever he's punching at is going to be up a lot higher than what he's used to.
     
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    #9
  10. Hookie

    Hookie Affeldt... Referee, Judge, and Timekeeper Full Member

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    Look, size ain't everything. That's not why I'm picking Vitali.
     
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    Hookie, Oct 13, 2015
    #10
  11. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    About how I see it. To add a bit Vitali's foot speed would take Liston out of his element. Liston was not very good at hitting moving targets.
     
    Mendoza, Oct 13, 2015
    Mendoza, Oct 13, 2015
    #11
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Lewis didn't fight to reach. At all. Or are you saying he did and Vitali overcame this?

    It doens't "change" at all. Liston has a significant reach advantage if he jabs/right hand to the chest. Personally, i'm pretty sure he would, he was a prestigious body puncher and Vitali's large, mostly unprotected (in round 1) chest would be an irresistible target. Nobody ever battered Vitali to the body; I for, one would be interested to see how he would do with one of the hardest jabs and one of the hardest right hands, ever, thrown to his chest.

    I'm not sure if you count or not, but the persistent determination for the "Taller fighter" to take away the reach advantage of the longer fighter is persistent and without basis on the forum. IF Liston decides to hit to the head and IF he can't reach it because you are right (Which isn't proven), then he has a huge, mainly untested, and very ready target in the upper torso of Vitali.

    Disagree; always have with the "height neutralises reach" argument. It does with certain styles, but neither of these are embodied here.
     
    McGrain, Oct 13, 2015
    McGrain, Oct 13, 2015
    #12
  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He was very, very good at hitting moving targets. This is more lazy ****ysis based on past-prime losses to the greatest mover of all time.

    And Vitali is hardly Fred Astaire anyway.
     
    McGrain, Oct 13, 2015
    McGrain, Oct 13, 2015
    #13
  14. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    [yt]ILbvtB_0pKk[/yt]
     
    Unforgiven, Oct 13, 2015
    Unforgiven, Oct 13, 2015
    #14
  15. JAB5239

    JAB5239 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This is a tough fight for Liston, but not because of the reasons I see many picking. I see a lot of height and reach arguments. While this is true to an extent Liston can still work his way into punching range the same way he did against Cleveland Williams. Liston in his prime is also not a stationary fighter nor just sitting there to be hit. He parried and had good head movement. Vits on the other hand does not have good head movement, he doesnt slip puches to stay in punching range and he doesnt fight well while being backed up. This keeps Liston in a competetive fight. The biggest problem ai see for Sonny is Vits work rate. Liston has the ability to hurt any fighter. He would need to establish his power to slow Vits work rate down. If he cant do that it could be a long night. If he can he can break him down. No way to prove any of this but its a competitive fight, much more than most will give credit for no matter who they choose.
     
    JAB5239, Oct 13, 2015
    JAB5239, Oct 13, 2015
    #15
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