Sonny Liston vs. Vitali Klitschko

so you mean a minor undisputed champion.

I'm ok with that, as opposed to a major titlist such as vitali, whose only title fight that gets close to one of listons was his loss to lewis.

 

Liston was way past his Prime against Martin , he was ahead on
scorecards and Martin was down in that fight.

By the Way Martin killed a man in the Ring.
He hit Liston clean with a big right + 2 big shots against a stunned tired Liston.
I bet if Vitali runs into that right like he did vs Sanders in Round 1 he would get knocked out too because his chin is overrated.

 

So was Vitali fighting at 42, but he was still beating top contenders.

What's your point?

Sanders was a bigger guy with a faster punch.

 

You probably can, because I don’t see any compelling evidence that VK hit a lot harder than Williams.

If you think that Liston was basic, then you probably need to go back and watch more footage of him. He was very far from being basic. He was a brilliant all round technician, and a brilliant ring general. He was a lot more technically sound than Vitally Klitschko.

Again, if this sort of fight is a no brainer for you, it usually means that you have a better understanding of one fighter than the other.

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It depends when the fight is held.

If it is held while he is still after the title, then I think he will do his honest best.

 

Using the undisputed angle (even if practically every heavyweight champ before Ali's exodus was undisputed because there wasn't an alphabet soup of title organizations) like you did in your last post to explain why Vitali wasn't in Sonny's class fine, as long as you stay consistent.

Vitali wouldn't have been in the head to head class of Burns, Braddock, Baer, or any pre-multi title organization champ, either.

We're going to have to agree to disagree on that one. Cheers. :good

 

Liston misses all night. Both fighters have a ****ty resume, but only Vit gets called out on it. Liston doesn't have a single great win, not one. Most overrated HW of all time. The only great fighter he fought, completely schooled him. He wasn't even competitive.

 

What great fighters did Vitally Klitschko beat?

 

Vitali barely beat a top contender in his entire career. He has no business in ATG h2h discussions. His record is as thin as a sheet of paper and he lost to the two best guys he fought. One wasn't even a HW and the other was in the worst shape of his career.

He has no win over anybody to suggest he'd beat Liston. Raham was a poor version of Liston. He resembled Liston more than any body Vitali faced or was due he face.
Vitali wanted no part of that fight.

Since Vitalis days as a top fighter these were all the top contenders in the division:

Byrd-

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Lewis-

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Ike Ibeabuchi
Holyfield
Ruiz
Tua
Hasim Rahman
James Toney
Lamon Brewster
Ruslan Chagaev
Sultan Ibragimov
Valuev
Eddie Chambers
Povetkin
Robert Helenius
Bermane Stiverne

He feasted on 10% of the worst HW division know to man and ignored the rest.

His best win is a grossly out of shape , old , shot to bits Sanders - who never had a top 10 ranking in his career before he beat Wlad. Not even when prime did he ever make the top 10.
But when old and washed up , he gave Vitali his best win.
And amazingly , the only two rounds he had in him , he WON.

He has the resume of a journeyman. He isn't qualified here. Resume too weak.

 

It's not so much that Vitali doesn't deserve his place in discussions as it is that Liston is an absolute monster.

The Rahman comparison is decent actually he probably is the closest style match the was he pumped out that solid jab and looked to knock heads off with his right hook.

Your top contender list is of course totally arbitrary, how did you come up with it?

 

This often gets overlooked for some reason. I don't know why.

 

Where did you get those names Dino? You have Helenius, but not Haye.

Vitali made 10 title defenses and beat several undefeated fighters and other top 10 HWs.

 

Because it's not valid; it was part of the strategy.

Vitali was a bigger guy and they wanted the extra weight to help in the clinches.

This is documented.