Sonny Liston vs. Vitali Klitschko

Jameel usually weighed in the 260s.

Wlad fight 263.
Valuev fight 268.
Peter fight 266.

 

Lol, in not worried about you calling me names. This is a message board, I've learned to not give a **** about what people I don't personally know think about me.

As to all things being equal...I'm of the opinion that the guy who gets the same opponent out earlier is the better puncher.

 

What about the two he didn't get out though?

You are avoiding the issue.

Is knocking out some guys early better than knocking out more guys but doing it late?

 

You're losing me. What exactly are you talking about? You asked everything being equal and I answered that.

 

You're losing me. What exactly are you talking about? I've already answered your question of all things being equal.

 

I'm talking about the size matters argument.

Harrison is a super heavyweight, one of the biggest and most hyped in history.

I don't think in any era he would have been champ nor a competitive defence.

 

Okay. I guess my mind is just working slow today.

Your position is it is better to knock some out early than all late.

Thanks for replying.

 

"most hyped in history"

He was never in the Ring Magazine's top ten yearly ratings.

He might have gotten a lot of hype, but it is not like folks in his own era thought him great or anything.

"any era"

But he fought in a big man's era. Here are the weights of the men who defeated him

(272, 228, 232.5, 232, 210.5, 247, 224.5)

Every win he had was against a man over 200 lbs.

That the under 200 lb. era fighters could all handle him is a shot in the dark,

"he would never have been champ"

But this is beside the point as Audley was never even a top ten man in his own day in the yearly rankings let alone a world champion.

 

He was exceptionally hyped. If you followed boxing after he 2000 Olympics you would know this.

Look at the heights of those men. One in particular, David Haye used to be a CW. Michael Sprott is so far removed from a big HW it's ridiculous to mention him. Guinn, Williams, Rogan, Wilder, Price would all count as big men but that's all by the by.

The point remains clear, Harrison is one of the most hyped big men in history and was unable to even breach the world rankings for one week of his career. There is no reason to assume this would ever be the case. Just because he is a SHW does not mean he would ever be world class.

 

These men are big men compared to Roy Harris or Willi Besmanoff.

You see someone like Harris handling Harrison. I don't.

"most hyped big men in history and was unable to even breach the world rankings for one week in his career."

What is your point? If Harrison wasn't very good, no big man is very good, and so Vitali or Wlad or Lewis aren't very good?

I didn't bring up Harrison and as he wasn't ever rated in his own era, I am not certain what his relevance is.

There are plenty of 180 or 190 or 200 or 210 lb. fighters who were never rated either.

 

Im not saying it's better ed, I'm saying its more indicative of who the better puncher is. If all things are equal and one guy stops a guy early while the other takes more rounds to do so than I believe the first fighter has shown he is the harder puncher. Maybe I've missed something in this thread as I have admittingly not read every single post. I'm still talking about Bits and Liston. And I believe film supports the case of Sonny being the more powerful puncher. This isn't a slight against Vits. Whether you get a guy out early or get a decision winning is the bottom line.

 

aha..fat people are the best boxers.

that old chestnut.

 

Apart from the fact that Liston fought Howlett in his 5th fight, whereas Klitchko fought Belinski in his 15th fight, this has no bearing whatsoever on the claim by a Kleechko fan that Vits was a better puncher than LaMar Clark because he was a "world title holder"

Kleechko fought in an era of meaningless titles where for the right sanction fee anyone could get a shot at a " title " as was the case with Kleechko and Hide's worthless WBO title.

Liston on the other hand was a black street thug who made no apologies for being as such, who fought in an era of the one title, and as a consequence of his chosen lifestyle white Murica did all in its power to stop him fighting for the title until there were no other options left for Patterson.

I would say the people Liston fought and KO'd on his way to fighting for the undisputed Heavyweight title of the world, were of a far superior calibre to the garbage Vits fought, up to and including Herbie Hide.

 

I've never seen a worst crop of hwt contenders in my life. It's a by product of decades where it's easy to be called champion and here are as many as 40 top 10 contenders. A horrible era of boxing in the hwt division.

 

"the claim by a Kleechko fan that Vits was a better puncher than LaMar Clark"

I will make a note of you thinking LaMar Clark was in Vits class as a puncher.

"white Murica did all in its power to stop him fighting for the title"

For someone constantly talking about Muricans, you don't understand us much. Greed trumps bigotry for Muricans. Liston was the biggest draw out there, so he got his shot.

"I would say the people Liston fought and KO'd . . . were of far superior caliber to the garbage Vits fought."

Not a surprising viewpoint from someone who rates LaMar Clark in the same class as Vitali.

*By the way, I'm not a Vitali fan. He lost to the two best he fought and didn't fight most of the best of his era. But his era was a lot tougher than the era Liston fought in and his competition was still more than a match for the fellows Liston beat up.