Sonny Liston, why is he ranked so highly?

Powerful, under-rated technically with an ATG heavyweight jab, and the dimensions of a super-heavy with a 84" reach at only 6'1" makes him a genetic monster H2H. He was just unfortunate to run into the greatest heavyweight who ever lived, and obviously the problems outside the ring. I'm reading Night Train at the moment, great book.

 

I still don't believe the 84 reach, maybe its measured to the finger tips and sonny had big hands if it was measured to his knuckle his reach would be shorter.

 

Mainly, yes. He did beat Patterson x2, Williams x2, Machen, Folley so his resumé wasn't bad at all, but he could of achieved so much more.

The trouble was he ran into Ali and problems outside of the ring. He was involved in the underworld of organized crime, went to prison twice and was constantly arrested and harrassed by police.

He apparently barely trained for Ali I, although I think Ali was always all wrong for him stylstically. And there's obviously the mystery over the 'phantom punch' in Ali II.

He was a fighter that never fufilled his true potential for both those reasons. If you look at him H2H, he's a tough, tough night for anybody if he's in the right frame of mind.

And I understand what you say about achievement and all, and that's why I rank Liston outside my top and second tier HW's in an all-time list, but you have to take into account his true ability and what might of been. If you go solely by achievement, then Sam Langford never won a legitimate title. But he shouldn't be penalized for that. Sonny too never had the advantages that many others had.

 

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With him it's similar to Johnson both cleaned ou the division before they won the title and their reign was subpar. D'Amato didn't want Patterson to fight Liston that's why he got huis chance pretty late. Liston's resume and achievements are decent but not what he could have achieved. But well this actually counts for many champs.

 

He cleaned out his division of all the top HWs of his era. Patterson twice, Williams twice, Valdes, Harris, Folley and Machen

He ran into the greatest ever, lost twice and couldnt get any more contenders in the ring with him

 

Thats photoshopped, if real his arms would be below his knees while standing straight

 

Of course it is.

And why would I listen to you on anything?

 

In reality he is overrated. His wins over Cleveland Williams were impressive but Williams was overrated. Liston did have 2 dominating KO's over Patterson. He lost badly to Ali in 2 fights and was KO'd late in his career by Leotis Martin. I do think Liston had the best look for meanness and would have had a good chance vs many with his power but Liston had the serious weakness that showed up vs Ali, he quit....Funny but Mike Tyson gave up in his fights vs Williams and McBride and lost his mental battle in 2 fights vs Holy but at least Mike took some serious punches in his losses....Liston did vs Leotis but in the Ali fights I did not see anything that would make a true warrior quit

 

Charles was just a bad man , he made the best of what he had and became a great champion in a hard division to reign in. Ali was the new fresh taste in everyones mouth but he would not have gained so much recognition had it not been for Sonnys toughness and persona.. Floyd was a very respected champion and was played with like a kid... he could have made a real fight of it against Ali, but those ******* who were always on his back subdued his potential.. Sonny could have been more, but if you dont think he could have been one of the best af all time, i am never gonna be able to convince ya. There are very few heavyweights in history that Sonny would not have been competetive against....

 

He had very broad shoulders and a wide back so that's where the 84'' reach comes into play.