Sonny Liston

No, Machen had reason to lie. Just like most other fighters, always looking for an excuse why they lost a fight. Clay accused Liston's corner of blinding him. Maybe Machen just followed that to alibi his own loss to Liston.
It's like when Tyson accused Holyfield of butting him, suddenly Holyfield gets a reputation as a dirty fighter, and previous opponents suddenly recollect that he fouled his way to beating them.
Unless of course we have any evidence that Machen mentioned it at the time.

 

Such absurd comments. Machen fought Liston fours years earlier and his comments occurred right after the first Ali Liston bout. Again no reason to lie and Machen was NOT using this as an excuse as to why he lost to Sonny. It was just an incident during the course of his bout with Liston.

The film itself is evidence enough. Ali is beating the crap out of Liston. Ali hit him at will, severely cut him, staggered him and then he fakes being blinded because of what reason? You can see Ali sitting in his corner in great distress and Dundee vigorously wiping water filled songs along Alis eyes in an effort to clear them. All this filmed evidence collaborates Dundees account of what happened. You people are out of your minds. For a final time please post eye witness accounts that show that Ali was faking being blinded. If you can't you are making it up. I'll bet you are making it up! Sooooooooo absurd!

 

Ali had a perfectly normal vision the whole 4th round. Only after he was in his corner and his face was wiped with a towel he started blinking. Dundee put no finger in his eye, didn't touch the corner of his eye, not on film, he was either rubbing Ali's face with a towel or rubbing it with a wet sponge. He wasn't rubbing his own eyes before or after he pushed Ali toward the center of the ring. The referee said he smelled nothing when he went to Ali's corner to ask what was going on.

 

Yes, people do lie. The suggestion that Liston tried to blind Machen makes Machen's performance look more heroic, it taints Liston's win over him, it mitigates Machen's loss. That's obvious. And could be a motivation to lie.

I'd also bear in mind that Eddie Machen suffered from acute schizophrenia, meaning his sense of reality could well be distorted.

 

Also, the Machen-Liston fight is on film. I can't recall Machen ever looking distressed in a way to suggest he'd some burning in his eyes.
But I might be wrong.

 

Anyone...anyone who states as a fact that Ali faked being blinded in that 5th round has some serious issues. There is no evidence what so ever to support such a claim. There is no reason whatsoever for Ali to fake being blinded in a bout where everything was going his way. His opponent was hurt, staggered, cut. Ali was unmarked and virtually unhit. Again please present evidence....please present any single reputable article that claims that Ali faked being blinded in round 5. If you can't I will consider that it's something you have made up in your head. In fact it is something you made up in your head.

 

You obviously see the film your own way if Ali was beating the crap out of Liston at that point. There was nothing of the kind, the fourth round was pretty even or slightly in favour of Liston to me. Ali landed maybe one good punch, and so did Liston with that hook.

Who are you asking this? Did I say Ali faked being blinded? I don't remember saying anything like that. I'm questioning that Liston or his seconds had done anything intentional to harm Ali's vision, and I'm questioning the extent to which Ali's vision was affected. I never said he had no trouble with his eyes in that bout.

 

Once again....Ali was unmarked....Liston was severely cut across the cheek and his eyes were bruised and swollen. Liston was also staggered several times earlier. The bout was clearly not going in Liston favor putting it mildly.

You need to write English more understandably. No one knows whether Listons corner purposefully tried blinding anyone. Ali was blinded by something. Generally your own corner does not blind their own fighters so what ever the substance it must have come from Listons corner.

I bet you also think Foreman was drugged in Zaire, Norton and Shavers really beat Ali and John Tate was the hwt champion.

 

Once again, the judges didn't have the fight one-sided. Neither do I in this particular case.

Dundee might have rubbed Ali's eyes with his towel when he didn't close them, as one of the books about Ali had it, if I recall correctly. Maybe his sweat got into his eyes, when Dundee tried to wipe it in a downward motion. Maybe the substance that was put on Liston's cut somehow got to Ali's forehead when they clinched and their heads touched. Nobody knows. You are clearly favoring the version that Liston intentionally tried to blind Ali, based on your previous posts. While there's no evidence to back up that claim.

Yes Shavers deserved a victory on points over Ali. I posted my scorecard for that bout before. Just as I thought Young outpointed Norton easily. I had no idea about Foreman being drugged.

 

Read post 31. No one knows if Liston did anything intentionally as I wrote. All athletes are used to sweat in their eyes or a towel wiping them. More than likely it was something from Liston that got into Alis eyes...liniment or some solvent to help keep the gash on Listons cheekbone from bleeding...who knows? Ali was blinded during the course of most of round 5. Towards rounds end it cleared up and Ali resumed beating Liston up.
Ali stopped Liston in one of his best performances ....really no issue here unless you hate Ali.

 

There was no controversy regarding the Ali Shavers bout. Pretty clear Win for Ali....AP, UPI, Ring, BI, NY Times, NY Daily News....all gave Ali the win. Shavers did his best to conserve himself until the last 3 rounds..then go for the KO. In process he lost too many rounds and never got the KO. Result Earnie lost the fight.

 

Ali stopped a ring rusty, poorly prepared Sonny Liston.

I don't care about those newspaper reporters. I said before and I'll repeat, I have my own eyes to score it myself.